online photography classes

Has anyone ever taken any online photography classes? Did you feel like you learned much? Was it hard to put the lessons into effect without a visual demonstration? I see these classes online and am interested in them but don't want to spend $200 if I would get more out of a "real" class.

I'm not talking about those full complete photography courses that cover everything. I'm just talking 1 class that may only teach the basics, or only teach B&W etc...

Personally, I don't care for the setup of online classes and find it harder to do than a "real" class. Also in a real class I feel people are more likely to ask questions or voice their thoughts than in an online setup.

Oh I imagine you can learn something from those online classes, but the same thing you end up learning you could go out and buy a book which will cost you alot less. Or just google the information.

YES, you can learn "something" from online classes. Much more than picking up crumbs from books or the web. It's all about having structure -- it gives you a path to follow. In other words, it organizes what you need to know in a step-by-step process.

You don't have to believe me. Just ask me for a list of my student's websites. You'll see the difference good training makes. My grads are successful artists and not just skilled photographers.

I spent almost 30 years making my course the best. It's because I love what I do and want to reach as many people as possible. And is why I advertise here.

Matthew

BTW my course is not for everyone. It depends how serious you are about your work. If you want to do this as a hobby, then self education is fine. Read UE and watch YouTube vids.

However, if you want to earn a living with your camera, then you'll find formal training gives you the confidence you need to succeed. Going into business thinking you know photography well, but you don't really, is most surely a pretense to failure. And people often get hurt when they can't earn a living with their dream.

I've found that photography clubs, organized critiques and workshops "focused" on what you want to learn are better than a "soup to nuts" photography course (online or in-person). A lot depends on whether you want to learn portrait work, wedding photography, nature photography. Probably no one wants to do it all.
Promotions for programs that "guarantee" success as a professional photographer are overblown in my view.
You also want to see the work of the "instructor". Can they produce quality work? - or just talk about it? I just took a class in drawing animals because I knew the artist could produce based on her work.
Beware the promises of promoters.

Having been a teacher I think education is worthwhile - I've taken college coursework as well as continuing ed. Photography's always been a sideline and I'm mostly self-taught in that area, although I've taken a couple of workshops etc.

One thing I did when I was considering taking a photography workshop a few years ago was to look up the instructors and find their websites to see the type of work they did - that helped me decide it would be worth taking. Of course I have taken classes/inservices (in my field of work) that sounded good but remember a couple that were so bad I cut out halfway through the day!

Online or blended courses seem to be more flexible in you being able to work on it more at your own pace, during whatever time of day is best for you. I just started Matthew's course and haven't gotten beyond some of the readng yet but that's mostly because I'm in a 'holding pattern' for surgery and am needing to stay off my feet for now, but so far it's been interesting.

It might depend on your learning style, some people can work on their own, some people like to have other students to learn with. I did an online course before and liked it but it depends on if that way of learning works for you.

Thank you Sharon for putting this in a true perspective. While it is true some learn differently, eventually everyone needs to know the basics -- like depth of field and reciprocity. If your goal is to be good, that knowledge has to be gathered somewhere.

John, as you know already, some of my published work was used unauthorized on obscene porn sites (outside the USA). Not my cup o' tea, so years ago I pulled ALL pics I had posted publicly.

However, you can see some of my older work in threads here (where they fit). None in the PT gallery. I can only hope they help other's to learn and don't get used in a bad way. Else I'll have to pull them down again.

Also, I don't want my students to copy something I've done before or give them something to copy (other than the Masters in week 6). That is not how I teach. Instead, I want my students to become the best photographer THEY can be. And that requires making your work "personal". Not a copy of someone else's style. Take note -- If it's been done already, it's past time to move your work forward.

What really makes me proud aren't my own pics, but my student's work. That's why I enjoy teaching. When they can make something beautiful, and KNOW why and how they did it, works for me. I feel I've passed on something of value. Things that took me many decades to learn.

Anyone wanting to see samples of student's work (or even my own stuff) please feel free to ask. I have their permission to post links and have 1000's of my own images to share. My email is linked in my sig below.

Matthew

BTW Good pictures market themselves. Will Rogers described it this way...

"If you want to be successful, it's just this simple. Know what you are doing. Love what you are doing. And believe in what you are doing."

Baydream wrote: I've found that photography clubs, organized critiques and workshops "focused" on what you want to learn are better than a "soup to nuts" photography course (online or in-person). A lot depends on whether you want to learn portrait work, wedding photography, nature photography. Probably no one wants to do it all.
Promotions for programs that "guarantee" success as a professional photographer are overblown in my view.
You also want to see the work of the "instructor". Can they produce quality work? - or just talk about it? I just took a class in drawing animals because I knew the artist could produce based on her work.
Beware the promises of promoters.

Well said

As most of you know I earn my living doing weddings and portraits, so when I feel the need to educate myself I find a course with a photographer in the same field of work, working alongside another pro is enough to push me onwards, the fact I am there with him/her makes it much more personal and I am able to soak up much more info.
I have tried online courses and yes of course I learned something but it just wasnt enough for me as for books, I like to read them but never seem to learn from them.
On the subject of stolen photos, I recently had several stolen and used elsewhere, my answer was to simply re work them to an unusable size and watermark them, they are still there for folks to see and on here they cannot be lifted by a simple right click, thanks to PT.
I will point out to anyone wanting to learn photography it is a worthwhile excersise to look at others photos and I would recommend looking at paintings also, there is so much to learn from looking at other peoples work, its not a matter of copying them its a matter of studying them and picking up pointers and aspiring to reach those levels also surpassing them.
When I look at someone elses photo or painting I always ask myself what could I do better, how did they achieve it, how many lights did they use or not, etc etc.

OK, you guys win. I give. I'll post an "example" of my work. Macro is popular here.

If you want to shoot really close up photos of cigarette butts, I'm the best teacher you can find, anywhere...

D700, 60mm "micro-Nikkor" and on camera flash (SB-900 bounced). No post work other than minor RAW adjustments. You have to imagine it printed really LARGE.

An "oh-maj" to the platinum work of Irving Penn.

MLKstudios wrote: OK, you guys win. I give. I'll post an "example" of my work. Macro is popular here.

If you want to shoot really close up photos of cigarette butts, I'm the best teacher you can find, anywhere...

D700, 60mm "micro-Nikkor" and on camera flash (SB-900 bounced). No post work other than minor RAW adjustments. You have to imagine it printed really LARGE.

An "oh-maj" to the platinum work of Irving Penn.

Cool shot

I am going to say this once...Matthew I think you are full of shit and I wish there was an ignore button to ignore members.

I have been ignoring your comments (yes unfortually I read them, but I don't respond) Sometimes I feel like you comment on the sole purpose to get me to respond..such as the first post you made to this thread.

In the end, people can learn from those free or paid online single courses. For some people it's the first step into submitting themselves into an actual photography course. For others, they learn what they needed and move on. Some people find them more helpful then a book because usually those classes are live and there is someone who is actively teaching it, one could ask a question and learn on the spot.

You make yourself out to be the greatest teacher in the world who teaches photography and yet I have never heard of you or ran across your site or even your pictures until you came to photographytalk. You are NOT the only one who teaches photography. Schools/Photographers who teach photography do not need to announce "You don't have to believe me. Just ask me for a list of my student's websites."

As John stated and I agree...I would like to see the work of the photographer who is teaching....especially if I am going to fork out $. Now I am talking about such photographers like you. I'm not talking about an actual school like any college or NYIP. But any individual photographer who goes onto teaching. I would like to see their work. I don't care about the work of the students. I care about the work from the teacher.

You state you had photos published on porn sites. So you pulled all your work off the net. Well funny as it is, I had a smiliar thing happen to me. Except I was the model, not the photographer and someone stoled all my pictures off my own site, burn to CD and sold the CDs. As you guessed I was not happy. However, if I was the photographer and the pictures I took was on other sites, I wouldn't take all my pictures down... I would just get even. And I would continue to shoot and upload more pictures on my site because that is what I love to do. If people want to steal, they will. I have learn so much from when my pictures were stolen and I have grown into a better person because of it.

Until you just posted that cig but image, I have never seen a photo of yours.

If you can teach well, then I do not think a student will copy a photo you taken. Because they have learned to use their own imagination. Everything in this world has been photograph at one time or another and people continue to take pictures of the same subject. A dog, a cigar, a house, the grand canyon etc..

Like I said, I want to see your work...not your student's work. I could care less about them, I don't know them. It's funny you say you are the best teacher you can find to shoot really close up photos of cigarette butts. When I first read that...all I thought was, yea because you are probably a smoker and have lots of practice.

Thank you Crystal for that insightful observation. You must have missed my Goth pics and some other work I posted here. Search "street".

However good my own work is, it's my student's work that matters most to me. Many good photographers can't teach. They know instinctually what to do, but don't have the tools to share it with others. Teaching is an art.

It's really too bad NYIP made you the sourpuss you've become. I know you tried opening a studio and failed. That's a real tragedy. If any of my students want to succeed, I make sure they do. Teaching comes natural to me. And yes, I'm that good that ANY of my students can succeed if they are willing to work at it.

I've also been to schools like NYIP (when they taught in NYC) and took very expensive classes at the Art Institute in Colorado. Except for one or two good teachers, those were a waste of money. They do cover the basics, but not very well. It also took me a long time to unlearn what some educators taught me. Like many, after school (and before the web) I had to learn by doing.

But, after decades of working, assisting and teaching, I now know what works photographically and what doesn't. I've put my experience and training into a well designed program. Of course not everyone will end up becoming a master photographer, but I have many who do. And I answer my students as if they were sitting in front of me. I have taught thousands, and the common response is, "I felt like I was your ONLY student". That requires dedication to my trade.

I am famous in the world of photography. I had one of the first online courses and teach many in Hollywood who's work you see on TV and films. I like what I do and don't need anyone's accolades anymore. I wish you liked who you are too. But, it seems you're too far gone for my help.

BTW the first question I ask private students is to name someone famous in photography. Often they can't. In Europe everyone can name 10 or 12 great photographers. Art is part of the culture there. It isn't here.

PS thanks for the compliment Crammer. Are you familiar with Irving Penn? He gave us the look of "Vogue".

To add a comment here. It is people like you (Crystal) that cause me to toot my own horn to defend myself here. For no good reason at all.

Like John, I really don't know what you gain from dissing me and my classes. I'm here to help. I sometimes point out weakness and not sugarcoat my responses. If you think you are a pro, and you show sub-par work, I'll let you know.

I'd like to just say to take my course if you are serious about photography. And ignore me if you don't. I'm not here to win friends. I'm here to teach. It's what I do best. If you like me that's fine too. I like most people in general. Not those who use underhanded remarks or flat out lies to attack me. I fight back then.

Matthew

Wow Matthew, I have no idea where you got the understanding that I tried to open a studio and failed. Because I never open a studio. I never will, never want too. It's not what I want to shoot. When I shoot portraits I shoot on location. I want nothing to do with actual studios. Sorry but you been misinformed.

BTW, I learned my field of craft all on my own. I took NYIP for the hell of it.

Why would I ever take your course? You have nothing to offer me. And sorry I'm not going to take your course for the hell of it.

What I find interesting is Matthew says he has pictures here on the forum. Then Baydream and photobud comment about seeing work of the instructor. Then Matthew needs to give in to post an example. It's like Matthew is trying to prove a point or something. If you have your photos already on this forum, then why bother posting the image you posted. You already showed your work.