Crop Sensors vs Full Frame :: Crop Or Crap?

9 years 8 months ago - 9 years 8 months ago #392546 by Stealthy Ninja

Shadowfixer1 wrote: It also wasn't meant to be an absolute serious piece. Zack was just clowning around. Man some folks are just wound too tight. I thought the presentation was funny and a knock off of some college professor.


Exactly, he was clowning around and didn't present any coherent arguments to support his case. 

This guy is supposed to know what he's doing, not resort to "I’m so glad you brought math! Love it! Yummy math! That’s why I’m a photographer. Because I love math so much. That’s why I study the likes of Avedon and Mary Ellen Mark and Dan Winters; it’s because of all their gorgeous math. Every time I see a beautiful photograph I grab a calculator because math turns me on that much. Have you ever studied the math of  Paolo Roversi  (NSFW)? OMG. His math… his math is unreal. Love his math. I hope to do math like him one day. Mmmmm. Math."

He admits he's being a jerk there too, all the while not bringing up any real points. Dropping random names isn't an argument.
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9 years 8 months ago - 9 years 8 months ago #392565 by McBeth Photography
neg·li·gi·ble ;)  :rofl: 

You're a good sport, and yes, I think that Zack is having a little fun with his blog this week. I think that the hits on his site have gone through the roof, nothing will stir the pot more than a working pro declaring to a world full of FX DSLR owners that his little mirrorless camera system is a direct replacement for their full frame systems. But it does get me to thinking, maybe Canon and Nikon aren't finding this to be funny at all. In fact, I hope that they ARE challenged by this! Maybe we'll see a sleeker stealthier D400 released, or the Canon equivalent, it sure would be nice.

They had better hurry though, I really didn't need a lot of encouragement to motivate me to explore some larger film formats. Zack almost pushed me over the edge on that idea. 

It is what it is.
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9 years 8 months ago - 9 years 8 months ago #392567 by Stealthy Ninja
My friend owns the Fuji X-T1 and it's a nice camera.

Replacement for DSLR... well that depends on who sponsors you. ;)


McBeth Photography wrote: You're a good sport, and yes, I think that Zack is having a little fun with his blog this week. 


I'm not too familiar with his style.  Are you saying it's just making stuff up to get hits?  Sounds very Ken Rockwell of him.
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9 years 8 months ago #392578 by Shadowfixer1

Stealthy Ninja wrote: My friend owns the Fuji X-T1 and it's a nice camera.

Replacement for DSLR... well that depends on who sponsors you. ;)


McBeth Photography wrote: You're a good sport, and yes, I think that Zack is having a little fun with his blog this week. 


I'm not too familiar with his style.  Are you saying it's just making stuff up to get hits?  Sounds very Ken Rockwell of him.

Dude. You missed the whole point.
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9 years 8 months ago #392769 by icepics
I've seen this elsewhere so it must be making the rounds! I don't know that I've ever seen his stuff but his name seems familiar. The video I thought was meant in fun. Although it did take him a bit to make his point! And there isn't that much difference in size between 35mm and APS size.

When film came out in APS size it was rather useless! because it only fit I think some P&S's that were made at the time. I don't think it was around all that long, I never had a camera that used it. Which did make me wonder why they brought back that size??! Obviously the cost being less if using a smaller sensor.

I remember the first digital photos and the number of megapixels were so low the pictures were awful! Even in publications particularly with enlargements the photos were all dots. As the technology has continued to improve it's certainly much better. So maybe the sensor size won't be as significant to photo quality. I think it's more a matter of what you want to be able to do if the smaller APS sensor size will be a drawback but it certainly seems possible to do professional quality work.

I don't have a FF camera to compare but with film unless I go as small as 110 that's where negatives that small lose quality. But then, those cameras have dinky plastic lenses so that affects quality more than anything I think. I just find it makes a difference if you want to do enlargements and that's where the larger negatives make a difference; otherwise I think a decent sharp lens makes more of a difference in image quality. (And I've gotten more into trying 120 film and can see where there could be an advantage in using larger formats.)

Sharon
Photo Comments
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9 years 8 months ago - 9 years 8 months ago #392794 by Stealthy Ninja

Shadowfixer1 wrote:

Stealthy Ninja wrote: My friend owns the Fuji X-T1 and it's a nice camera.

Replacement for DSLR... well that depends on who sponsors you. ;)


McBeth Photography wrote: You're a good sport, and yes, I think that Zack is having a little fun with his blog this week. 


I'm not too familiar with his style.  Are you saying it's just making stuff up to get hits?  Sounds very Ken Rockwell of him.

Dude. You missed the whole point.



He had a point? Still trying to work it out.  He was just joking around?  Trying to please his sponsor? 


If he's making a joke, then I just don't get the humour I suppose.  Then again, I think American humour is basically variations of fart jokes and seeing who can act the most stupid.
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9 years 8 months ago - 9 years 8 months ago #392795 by McBeth Photography

Stealthy Ninja wrote:

Shadowfixer1 wrote:

Stealthy Ninja wrote: My friend owns the Fuji X-T1 and it's a nice camera.

Replacement for DSLR... well that depends on who sponsors you. ;)


McBeth Photography wrote: You're a good sport, and yes, I think that Zack is having a little fun with his blog this week. 


I'm not too familiar with his style.  Are you saying it's just making stuff up to get hits?  Sounds very Ken Rockwell of him.

Dude. You missed the whole point.


He had a point? Still trying to work it out.  He was just joking around?  Trying to please his sponsor? :huh:

If he's making a joke, then I just don't get the humour I suppose.  Then again, I think American humour is basically variations of fart jokes and seeing who can act the most stupid.


You're funny!  :P

It is what it is.
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9 years 8 months ago #392796 by Stealthy Ninja

McBeth Photography wrote:

Stealthy Ninja wrote:

Shadowfixer1 wrote:

Stealthy Ninja wrote: My friend owns the Fuji X-T1 and it's a nice camera.

Replacement for DSLR... well that depends on who sponsors you. ;)


McBeth Photography wrote: You're a good sport, and yes, I think that Zack is having a little fun with his blog this week. 


I'm not too familiar with his style.  Are you saying it's just making stuff up to get hits?  Sounds very Ken Rockwell of him.

Dude. You missed the whole point.


He had a point? Still trying to work it out.  He was just joking around?  Trying to please his sponsor? :huh:

If he's making a joke, then I just don't get the humour I suppose.  Then again, I think American humour is basically variations of fart jokes and seeing who can act the most stupid.


You're funny!  :P


Does that mean I've mastered American humour? :patriot:

That was surprisingly easy. :kmonst:
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9 years 8 months ago #392801 by McBeth Photography
I think that there were several points being made here. 

1. Digital technology is getting better all the time.

2. Zack started using Fuji for fun and personal work, this led to a paying gig for him.

3. In Zack's view, his APS-C sensor camera of choice is a professional camera for serious work. A game changer.

4. Zack owns a Phase One medium format camera that can give him very large files so between the Phase One kit and the Fuji kit he feels covered.

5. Zack is not afraid to admit that large format film kinda turns him on and likes to see other shooters working with large format film. 

I probably missed a few other things but I'm out of time. ;)   

It is what it is.
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9 years 8 months ago #392802 by McBeth Photography

Stealthy Ninja wrote:

McBeth Photography wrote:

Stealthy Ninja wrote:

Shadowfixer1 wrote:

Stealthy Ninja wrote: My friend owns the Fuji X-T1 and it's a nice camera.

Replacement for DSLR... well that depends on who sponsors you. ;)


McBeth Photography wrote: You're a good sport, and yes, I think that Zack is having a little fun with his blog this week. 


I'm not too familiar with his style.  Are you saying it's just making stuff up to get hits?  Sounds very Ken Rockwell of him.

Dude. You missed the whole point.


He had a point? Still trying to work it out.  He was just joking around?  Trying to please his sponsor? :huh:

If he's making a joke, then I just don't get the humour I suppose.  Then again, I think American humour is basically variations of fart jokes and seeing who can act the most stupid.


You're funny!  :P


Does that mean I've mastered American humour? :patriot:

That was surprisingly easy. :kmonst:


You're one of US now! Welcome aboard!

It is what it is.
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9 years 8 months ago #392809 by KCook

McBeth Photography wrote: I think that there were several points being made here. 

1. Digital technology is getting better all the time.

2. Zack started using Fuji for fun and personal work, this led to a paying gig for him.

3. In Zack's view, his APS-C sensor camera of choice is a professional camera for serious work. A game changer.

4. Zack owns a Phase One medium format camera that can give him very large files so between the Phase One kit and the Fuji kit he feels covered.

5. Zack is not afraid to admit that large format film kinda turns him on and likes to see other shooters working with large format film. 

I probably missed a few other things but I'm out of time. ;)   


I suppose it's cool that Zack is sharing all that with his fans.  But I still fail to see what it has to do with the rest of the universe.

outoftheloop

Canon 50D, Olympus PL2
kellycook.zenfolio.com/

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9 years 8 months ago - 9 years 8 months ago #392822 by McBeth Photography

KCook wrote:

McBeth Photography wrote: I think that there were several points being made here. 

1. Digital technology is getting better all the time.

2. Zack started using Fuji for fun and personal work, this led to a paying gig for him.

3. In Zack's view, his APS-C sensor camera of choice is a professional camera for serious work. A game changer.

4. Zack owns a Phase One medium format camera that can give him very large files so between the Phase One kit and the Fuji kit he feels covered.

5. Zack is not afraid to admit that large format film kinda turns him on and likes to see other shooters working with large format film. 

I probably missed a few other things but I'm out of time. ;)   


I suppose it's cool that Zack is sharing all that with his fans.  But I still fail to see what it has to do with the rest of the universe.

outoftheloop

I guess if it needs to be explained, then here it is. Here you have a working pro that is choosing a smaller format to shoot and publish professional work with. This is in direct opposition to what the camera manufacturers are trying tell us when they market their FX cameras, particularly their high end models. Make no mistake about it, this discussion will continue around the photography global market.

What will happen when enough owners of Fuji, Nikon, Pentax, Olympus, Canon etc. APS-C cameras say to themselves,
"my sensor is good enough, FX isn't enough jump in quality to justify the investment, I think that I'll save up for a digital medium format and forget the D4s." 

That, my friend, is what it has to do with the rest of the camera universe. Game changer. I think that there will be several new digital medium format systems introduced within the next five years and the people that used to make FX DSLR's their standard will be buying the bigger sensors.

It is what it is.
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9 years 8 months ago - 9 years 8 months ago #392826 by Stealthy Ninja
Until Fuji bring out a FF camera and Zack suddenly changes his mind that is.


I think this is this guy's personal experience from his personal useage points... sounds a lot, actually, like he's trying to justify his choice.
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9 years 8 months ago - 9 years 8 months ago #392830 by Stealthy Ninja
BTW my friend who owns the X-T1 would never say it's a replacement for a FF camera. It's very good, but you just can't get around the physics. Sensor technology can make high ISO noise better, but it can't magically improve the bokeh. Even Zack had to freelense and give special conditions to make the Fuji have "better" bokeh than a FF camera. Even then, his comparisons were just bokeh balls... interesting, but bokeh isn't just "bokeh balls".

BTW I'm not against crop cameras for certain situations.  Like perhaps telephoto use or when you want a lot of DOF or something.  I'll probably get a 7D II when it comes out (specs depending).
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9 years 8 months ago #392833 by McBeth Photography

Stealthy Ninja wrote: Until Fuji bring out a FF camera and Zack suddenly changes his mind that is.


I think this is this guy's personal experience from his personal useage points... sounds a lot, actually, like he's trying to justify his choice.


Fair enough, Zack appears to be a passionate guy. We're all human and we love our toys! :)

It is what it is.
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