Full frame or not to full frame? That's the question

I currently have a Canon Rebel and it's been a great camera to learn photography. I really would like to get a new camera but also something that I can grow into. So I'm trying to figure out if a full frame would be a good investment for me?

What do you think?

Absolutely no question! If you intend progressing with your photography, buy a FX, it'll grow with you.
Good luck and let us know what you decide.

Vespista wrote: Absolutely no question! If you intend progressing with your photography, buy a FX, it'll grow with you.
Good luck and let us know what you decide.

Since he owns a Canon I don't think buying an FX camera will be a good idea.

If I was the OP I'd go for a 5Diii. The AF on that camera puts it above the 5Dii in many ways. Also the high iso is better.

Though, if you can't afford it a 2nd hand 5Dii would be OK even a 5D will be pretty good.

Are there any rumored lower priced full frame Canon's supposed to be hitting the market? Like Nikon's D600?

Oh yeh I forgot about the 6D. Personally I'd skip it, but I guess it's OK for a first FF camera.

To get a full frame body, first ask your self, what do you shoot the most. If the answer tips in the favour of Landscapes and Architecture, where the wide angle is the dominat lens choice, go for a full format sensor camera, but if you lean toward action and wildlife, where the tele photo lens is king, then stick with the crop factor sensor as this gives it self better to the tele.

To get a pro camera full format sensor, is a big investment. If you ask me, I would say you should aim for a prosumer body in the segment of the Nikon D7000 or Canon 7D for the crop sensor segment, or Nikon D600 or Canon 6D for the full format segment.

studiotoffa wrote: To get a full frame body, first ask your self, what do you shoot the most. If the answer tips in the favour of Landscapes and Architecture, where the wide angle is the dominat lens choice, go for a full format sensor camera, but if you lean toward action and wildlife, where the tele photo lens is king, then stick with the crop factor sensor as this gives it self better to the tele.

To get a pro camera full format sensor, is a big investment. If you ask me, I would say you should aim for a prosumer body in the segment of the Nikon D7000 or Canon 7D for the crop sensor segment, or Nikon D600 or Canon 6D for the full format segment.

FF isn't just about the field of view. You get a shallower DOF and more detail. Also FF cameras usually have better features and a better in low light because of pixel size. Another thing. The AF system on the D7000 isn't very good. The 7D also needs tweaking. The 5Diii is very good with AF though. The 5Dii sucks, the 5D classic also. I don't know about the 6D.

ALSO using a D7000 for telephoto isn't a good idea IMHO, from my experience and testing the D7000 offers inferior detail even to the D3s (which has less resolution) when using telephoto.

So no, I'd not recommend going crop sensor unless you really need to or you're going to buy a mirrorless camera. My experience with various cameras has taught me FF is superior in many ways to crop.

Oh another thing, a FF camera isn't necessarily a big investment if you go 2nd hand. Not anymore.

Stealthy Ninja wrote:

studiotoffa wrote: To get a full frame body, first ask your self, what do you shoot the most. If the answer tips in the favour of Landscapes and Architecture, where the wide angle is the dominat lens choice, go for a full format sensor camera, but if you lean toward action and wildlife, where the tele photo lens is king, then stick with the crop factor sensor as this gives it self better to the tele.

To get a pro camera full format sensor, is a big investment. If you ask me, I would say you should aim for a prosumer body in the segment of the Nikon D7000 or Canon 7D for the crop sensor segment, or Nikon D600 or Canon 6D for the full format segment.

FF isn't just about the field of view. You get a shallower DOF and more detail. Also FF cameras usually have better features and a better in low light because of pixel size. Another thing. The AF system on the D7000 isn't very good. The 7D also needs tweaking. The 5Diii is very good with AF though. The 5Dii sucks, the 5D classic also. I don't know about the 6D.

ALSO using a D7000 for telephoto isn't a good idea IMHO, from my experience and testing the D7000 offers inferior detail even to the D3s (which has less resolution) when using telephoto.

So no, I'd not recommend going crop sensor unless you really need to or you're going to buy a mirrorless camera. My experience with various cameras has taught me FF is superior in many ways to crop.

Oh another thing, a FF camera isn't necessarily a big investment if you go 2nd hand. Not anymore.

The AF is not that important if you don't shoot action.
When it comes to details, I would say that it all depend upon the optics you're using. But, if you compare a Prosumer SLR up agains a Pro level like D3s, yes it will be of lesser quality. And the D7000 is not a FX sensor, so it will be inferiour to the D3s, but to invest in telephoto lenses for the D3s is a lot more expensive compared to what you with the D7000. A FX-sensor/FF sensor will require a bigger tele to get the same angle of view as get with a crop sensor camera.

With regards to the investment, I agree with you, a second hand FX/FF senor like the D700 and the 5D mkII is not that expensive.

But to give a good advice here, I think we need a little more info from threadstarter with regards to the skill level in question here. For someone with a low skill level to be thinking of DoF, amount of detail level, and moiré is to be asking to much. One don't recommend a novice to get a 400 mm f2.8 when they're just starting out. And that's what I think is need here. Some more info on skill level, prefered subject to photograph.

There are so many other options to consider in addition to format. You will be better served to compare particular camera models and their entire feature set rather than picking a single feature to make your decision. It has always been the nature of photographers to say bigger is better, and in many cases they are right, but it is also the fact that many photographers have chosen smaller formats for valid reasons and been quite successful.

Remember that "full frame" is still small format. Why not go medium format? How about large format? You can probably come up with your own reasons why you won't be buying a medium format DSLR or 4x5 view camera. There are also many valid reasons why your style of photography might be better served by a current APS-C DSLR rather than a first generation 35mm DSLR.

IMO for a beginner camera format is one of the last things you need to be worrying about. Most folks would probably see a greater improvement in their photographs sticking with their old camera, and investing in learning Photoshop and/or lighting. But I know new cameras are fun. If your heart is set on 35mm just get it, and get back to shooting. There is only one cure for Gear Acquisition Syndrome: a heap of expensive gear and still mediocre pics.

Stealthy Ninja wrote:

studiotoffa wrote: To get a full frame body, first ask your self, what do you shoot the most. If the answer tips in the favour of Landscapes and Architecture, where the wide angle is the dominat lens choice, go for a full format sensor camera, but if you lean toward action and wildlife, where the tele photo lens is king, then stick with the crop factor sensor as this gives it self better to the tele.

To get a pro camera full format sensor, is a big investment. If you ask me, I would say you should aim for a prosumer body in the segment of the Nikon D7000 or Canon 7D for the crop sensor segment, or Nikon D600 or Canon 6D for the full format segment.

FF isn't just about the field of view. You get a shallower DOF and more detail. Also FF cameras usually have better features and a better in low light because of pixel size. Another thing. The AF system on the D7000 isn't very good. The 7D also needs tweaking. The 5Diii is very good with AF though. The 5Dii sucks, the 5D classic also. I don't know about the 6D.

ALSO using a D7000 for telephoto isn't a good idea IMHO, from my experience and testing the D7000 offers inferior detail even to the D3s (which has less resolution) when using telephoto.

So no, I'd not recommend going crop sensor unless you really need to or you're going to buy a mirrorless camera. My experience with various cameras has taught me FF is superior in many ways to crop.

Oh another thing, a FF camera isn't necessarily a big investment if you go 2nd hand. Not anymore.

Really on the d7000 ? i have both a d700 and d7000 , i really think the focus thing on the d7000 has been overrated , i find it to be a great little camera . It does take a bit of practice to get the hang of at first .

Then again is is really the camera ? lol

M7K_2903 by mannyher1 , on Flickr


d7000 , 70-200 2.8

Cameras I've owned starting at worst AF to best.

40D
5D
5Dii
D7000
*Big gap here*
1Div
D3s
D800 & D800e
1Dx

Trust me it's not a matter of "you have to get use to it" the D7000 just isn't that good. Sure you can work around the short comings with skill/timing but that doesn't make the AF good that just means you're a good photographer

Here's a test I did between some cameras before:
www.photographytalk.com/forum/photograph...moons-a-test-for-you

Could be interesting for the OP to see the thread.

Well the thing with going FF over crop is where you want to go with your photography, and what you want to do with it. I personally see there being room to use both. I would love a D800e for landscapes and macro work, also for better noise control at higher ISOs. The crop I use for wildlife simply because the sensor already gives you a crop without degrading the image, allowing more cropping in post. The most important thing you have to look at is what you shoot most of the time, and which format will work best for that shooting. As always it is using the best equipment for the situation.

Joves wrote: Well the thing with going FF over crop is where you want to go with your photography, and what you want to do with it. I personally see there being room to use both. I would love a D800e for landscapes and macro work, also for better noise control at higher ISOs. The crop I use for wildlife simply because the sensor already gives you a crop without degrading the image, allowing more cropping in post. The most important thing you have to look at is what you shoot most of the time, and which format will work best for that shooting. As always it is using the best equipment for the situation.

A very good sellingpoint for both formats, and I have to say I agree with you here. To many put their emphasis on the technology part of FF, with all the benefits of the larger sensor with regards to detail, noise, low light ability, and AF, but in the end it's all down to what tool works best for what job, and as you have pointed out here Joves, both sensors have their pros and cons depending on what shooting senario you're up against.

Stealthy Ninja wrote: Cameras I've owned starting at worst AF to best.

40D
5D
5Dii

My mis-focus rate with your three worst cameras is about 1 in 1000 shots. That may be horrible compared to the latest wang-doodles, but in my world that's well beyond the limit of idiot proof.