Dslr under $600

1 year 9 months ago #605327 by Steven-Bene
Thank you. I stumbled across the Canon EOS sl2. It seems to be exactly what I am looking for, and at a decent price as well. I fully understand the whole buy what you can afford and work with it, but in my experience (not with photography) I often find exactly what I'm looking for after doing a metric ton of research. For instance, I found the Canon sl2, which to my knowledge seems to be the best value to me personally, but on the after doing dozens of ours of research. I will lower my standards and keep looking, but I don't think I'm going to find anything better for my needs than the sl2 in my price range. Thank you all for your help.


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1 year 9 months ago #605359 by Ozzie_Traveller
G'day Steven

Looking at your screen shots showing exposure info etc. I am a tad confused - and I do not wish to seem unkind ... but do you know how to adjust exposure via the rear screen of the camera?

The screen shot below shows my observations ...


a) yes - you're in manual mode
b) the histogram shows considerable under exposure
c) the exposure scale at bottom centre shows at-least 3 stops under exposure and awaits your attention

To balance the exposure on your Panny, use the small rolly-wheel at the top-right of the body ... press it in to alter Aperture, press it again to swap to Shutter - and roll sideways to modify exposure.  I use it daily to do exactly that

If this is where much of your 'problems' are, then I suspect that another camera is not going to fix the issues.  Again, not wanting to be rude to you - if Manual operation is not working for you, go back to Program for a while and visually monitor the camera's settings and operations while you get a better understanding of things

Hope this helps
Phil from the great land Downunder
www.flickr.com/photos/ozzie_traveller/sets/


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1 year 9 months ago #605394 by Steven-Bene
Don't take this the wrong way but I do actually know how to adjust the exposure of an image using shutter speed aperture and ISO. what I'm saying is if I were to take that picture with those settings (which I did intentionally set to prove my point) the image was black. My point is that the actual exposure on the LCD screen looks like it is the correct exposure even tho the picture I take isn't exposed right. The LCD doesn't display the image the same way that it will look after you take it and review the image. I took a photography class and my instructors camera did have this feature where it would show the actual exposure of the image before you took it. Not to restate but to put it in a way that you might understand if you don't understand what I'm saying the image that I took at those settings was absolutely black with no sign of light anywhere but as you can see on the live display it's compensating with a really high ISO making it really grainy but showing it at the proper exposure even though the settings would make the actual image under exposed by an extreme amount. This means that if I want to purposely under exposure over and expose an image relative to what the camera thinks is the correct exposure I'm not going to be able to see it on the screen so I'll have to take a picture look at it and adjust my settings accordingly to be able to get the exposure that I want instead of just being able to adjust it see the results on the screen and take it. Thanks.


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1 year 9 months ago #605408 by Steven-Bene
Here. 



this is to illustrate my point about how drastic or even small differences and exposure don't show up in the live view on the camera but do affect the exposure on the final image.


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1 year 9 months ago #605471 by Ozzie_Traveller
G'day Steve

Thanks for the second explanation - well done  :)

What appears to be happening here is probably more simple that either of us first realised - that is the image in the viewfinder versus the image as taken by the camera.  Although your camera is a mirrorless with an electronic viewfinder, an identical result will occur using a regular dSLR camera as well

The viewfinder is showing you what the camera can see 'here & now' - using whatever light is available.  However, the exposure is showing you a result using shutter & aperture & ISO settings that may or may-not equal the settings needed "here & now"

Just inventing for a moment ... your loungeroom at night - lit by several good halogen lights

If the camera were set to Automatic, it might select 1/4 second x F4,0 @ ISO-400 to take a photo.  However, if you choose to select 1/1000 second x F4,0 @ ISO-400, the image will be underexposed by 8 EVs (the difference between 1/4 to 1/8 - 1/15 - 1/30 - 1/60 - 1/125 - 1/250 - 1/500 - 1/1000) ... and the resulting image will be black or close to black.

This result will be identical to any Canon or Nikon or Sony dSLR or mirrorless camera because it is an inaccuracy in the exposure of the scene in front of the camera

Coming back to your reply above ...
This means that if I want to purposely under exposure over and expose an image relative to what the camera thinks is the correct exposure I'm not going to be able to see it on the screen so I'll have to take a picture look at it and adjust my settings accordingly to be able to get the exposure that I want instead of just being able to adjust it see the results on the screen and take it.

The first and most important thing to do is to find the 'correct' exposure at the beginning.  

May I suggest for this experiment that you set the camera to "P" Program for a while and go outdoors to your house yard.  Aim the camera somewhere and 1/2-press the shutter button to get a meter reading.  Let's invent and say it's 1/250sec x F5,6.  Then note the exposure +/- scale at the bottom of the screen - and press the rolly-wheel and you will see the +/- scale change from white to yellow ... it is now open to change

Roll the wheel LEFT for 5 to 8 clicks and note the viewfinder screen goes darker, then return it to zero and go to the RIGHT for 5 to 8 clicks and the screen becomes lighter.  In other words the viewfinder IS showing you your alterations but within the optical / electronic limits of the camera.  It will eventually stop showing you changes once it reaches the factory-set limit

Maybe once you have seen & discovered this side of things, when you go back to Manual operations it will start to make more sense to you

Hope this helps
Phil from the great land Downunder
www.flickr.com/photos/ozzie_traveller/sets/


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1 year 9 months ago #605581 by Steven-Bene
Thank you. I tried doing that in program Auto as shown in the video below. I found it does change when I use exposure compensation in p auto, but it still doesn't do it in manual. I may have misunderstood, but I took a photo class and the instructors camera and the other person in my groups cameras both had this feature in manual mode as well. That would be a d750 or d850 (I can't remember) and some Sony DSLR. Honestly all I'm wondering is if the Canon sl2 or any other DSLR in that price range has that. I asked the instructor why minde didn't do that and he said "it's like why doesn't your camera have iso 50,000? It's because you simply didn't pay enough." He said that in a nice way not making him sounds d rude, and he has a point. Like I said, im just wondering if any of the lower price dslrs have this feature as well as it proved extremely useful in this class I took.



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1 year 9 months ago - 1 year 9 months ago #605594 by Ozzie_Traveller
G'day Steve

I am somewhat horrified to hear the description from your instructor - even if it was meant in jest. I have been a college instructor in 'Photographic Techniques' since 1975, and retiring in 2006 and I would never make such a silly comment

Your Panny camera DOES have full exposure modification in Manual just like any dSLR camera does. The h-u-g-e difference with Manual vs the P-A-S or Auto settings is that the camera maker expects you to fully understand how exposure actually works, and from that to be able to set the camera for 'best' exposure

On your earlier screen image - which I responded to with labels on the screen - you DO have the exposure scale at the bottom of the screen. In Manual operation you MUST use this to set the correct exposure - and your aim is to zero the scale unless you are trying something 'special'. So from your screen shot, the exposure scale is at maximum "--" setting ... so you now need to alter either the F5,6 aperture setting OR the 1/4000sec shutter setting, until the scale is zeroed or close to it.

Presuming the scale is zeroed and your 1st photo taken, you then examine the image and decide whether it's okay as is, or whether it needs a bit more or a bit less exposure - and via the rolly-wheel you add or subtract exposure and take a 2nd shot. This is perfectly normal for most 'togs who use Manual all the time ... and after a few years it becomes almost natural ... and then you get to the stage where you eyeball a scene, zero the settings, automatically adjust +/- as needed all pretty automatically much like filling the jug and making a cup of coffee

I will try to send you a PM so that we can chat more off-line :)
- nup ... does not seem possible > but you can try me using my nickname yere & at Yahoo.com

Hope this helps
Phil from the great land Downunder
www.flickr.com/photos/ozzie_traveller/sets/


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