File structures - editing steps, storage and backup....

Hi everyone, I'm not sure if this has been covered yet, but I'm in a bit of a pickle with the structure of my HDD drives and the way in which I should be working.

Basically as I didn't know how seriously this interest was going to become originally I had no real working procedure and bad habits die hard I'm afraid! I am now in the situation where after a failed HDD incident I have various folders over 4 drives, some with duplicate folders - in fairness it's all a bit of a mess!!!!

Firstly - I'm wondering what editing procedure some of you use, ie do you upload RAW pics to your drive, edit then backup or keep the originals untouched and edit a duplicate set? Another thing is I hate deleting photos so I have GBs of images that in fairness will probably never get used. I know I have to start implementing a good working practice and then sort the mess out of the past but would just like some advice on what works for you guys....

Secondly (sorry it's long winded!) at what points and formats do you save your images? I have another bad habit of getting all excited about an image, opening, editing, adding border, watermark and saving as. great..... until someone wants a print and I have to re edit the original pic from scratch, possibly with slightly different results the 2nd time.

I realise I need to save at various stages in a file structure but again was wanting to pick some far more organised brains (not difficult!)

Thanks in advance!

Have you looked into backing up all your data and photos in one of those online services? That way you can access it from any computer, any where.

This one seems to be pretty popular: mozy.com/

Hope this helps!

Were you able to retrieve the photos off the failed hard drive? Or am I not understanding you?

No No, I haven't lost any data or anything. What I mean, and this may apply to the pro's more than enthusiasts is what working procedure works for them

ie -
1. take pics
2. transfer pics with folder name - file structure Date ##/##/#### desc?
3. rate pics/tag
4. delete under 2 stars
5. convert RAW to JPEG
6. create sub folder named etc...

same with editing

due to quality loss I have read pics should be converted to tiff etc but I don't want 6 folders of the same pics so was wondering if anyone has found a good practice that balances disk space with a useful edits - watermarking is another issue again. I do have online backup but I usually back up final images offsite rather than original files.... am I making no sense??? LOL

FMVPhotography wrote: No No, I haven't lost any data or anything. What I mean, and this may apply to the pro's more than enthusiasts is what working procedure works for them

ie -
1. take pics
2. transfer pics with folder name - file structure Date ##/##/#### desc?
3. rate pics/tag
4. delete under 2 stars
5. convert RAW to JPEG
6. create sub folder named etc...

same with editing

due to quality loss I have read pics should be converted to tiff etc but I don't want 6 folders of the same pics so was wondering if anyone has found a good practice that balances disk space with a useful edits - watermarking is another issue again. I do have online backup but I usually back up final images offsite rather than original files.... am I making no sense??? LOL

Wouldn't you want to have a back up of the original RAW photo off site with the finished one? In case you want to go back to square one?

well yes, I back up the original on a network drive locally, but this is exactly what I mean. Time/vs usefulness/vs disk space. I just wondered if anyone had a good working *procedure*!

Lets for example say I go out and take 50 pics. I get home and upload them to my PC - this is where some sort of procedure should start, but I usually get too excited dig out some of the best images, edit them, back up the whole thing and then have perhaps 40 not so great files that never get looked at again.... mostly as I don't like to delete potentially useful images - but a year down the line I have 500GB of images which 80% rarely get looked at (also I have no tagging ststem enforced so finding them again is always a nightmare!).

I'm thinking before ANY editing I should be brutal and cull the images that are no good (either with a star rating system or just a quick judgement) tag, then work with the images that are the best with a system of copying/converting/creating sub folders etc and finally backup.

I kind of know what I need to do - just fancied a good debate about it!!

FMVPhotography wrote: well yes, I back up the original on a network drive locally, but this is exactly what I mean. Time/vs usefulness/vs disk space. I just wondered if anyone had a good working *procedure*!

Lets for example say I go out and take 50 pics. I get home and upload them to my PC - this is where some sort of procedure should start, but I usually get too excited dig out some of the best images, edit them, back up the whole thing and then have perhaps 40 not so great files that never get looked at again.... mostly as I don't like to delete potentially useful images - but a year down the line I have 500GB of images which 80% rarely get looked at (also I have no tagging ststem enforced so finding them again is always a nightmare!).

I'm thinking before ANY editing I should be brutal and cull the images that are no good (either with a star rating system or just a quick judgement) tag, then work with the images that are the best with a system of copying/converting/creating sub folders etc and finally backup.

I kind of know what I need to do - just fancied a good debate about it!!

LOL no argument from me, I'm the same EXACT type of person, I hate deleting anything. Thinking that I might have reason later down the line to have that photo!

Doesn't Lightroom allow you to organize on a ranking system? I think so.

FMV, I know how that is

After a failed HD, I now save to my computer's HD, back up to an external HD, and I burn the RAW/.psd files to DVDr's for backup. Regarding work flow and organization, there's a lot of different ways. I'm a packat too This method works for me:

First, I load my RAW files into a folder on my computer HD. The folder is named by the date, followed by a description of the event or subject matter EG: "2010-06-13 Virginia beach sand castle competition"

Now I edit the photos in Camera RAW. Most of my cropping and enhancements are done here. As I go through the photos, I throw out any that I know won't make the cut - out of focus shots, failed panning attempts, the worst of a series, etc. If I'm happy with a shot I want to output, I hit "save image" and save as a JPG to a folder within my RAW folder I name "output". I always keep the saving options as "save as document name" so I know what RAW file the JPG is paired to. If there's a shot I think needs more work in Photoshop, I take note of the file name in notepad, and I go back to them one by one. When I edit in photoshop, I always edit uncropped, then save the .psd file with all it's layers under the document name to the RAW folder so the RAW file is paired directly with the .psd file. Then afterwards I collapse, resize, border, add watermark, or whatever and save as JPG to the output folder.

Last I save duplicates of everything to my external harddrive, and I burn RAW and .psd files to DVDr.

Hope this makes sense. Essentially, I end up with something that looks like this:

Notice the .psd's are paired with corresponding RAW files, as well as the outputs as they have the RAW file number in their names

hope this helps,
-Nick

FMVPhotography wrote: well yes, I back up the original on a network drive locally, but this is exactly what I mean. Time/vs usefulness/vs disk space. I just wondered if anyone had a good working *procedure*!

Lets for example say I go out and take 50 pics. I get home and upload them to my PC - this is where some sort of procedure should start, but I usually get too excited dig out some of the best images, edit them, back up the whole thing and then have perhaps 40 not so great files that never get looked at again.... mostly as I don't like to delete potentially useful images - but a year down the line I have 500GB of images which 80% rarely get looked at (also I have no tagging ststem enforced so finding them again is always a nightmare!).

I'm thinking before ANY editing I should be brutal and cull the images that are no good (either with a star rating system or just a quick judgement) tag, then work with the images that are the best with a system of copying/converting/creating sub folders etc and finally backup.

I kind of know what I need to do - just fancied a good debate about it!!

Oh, I didn't ask what software you use. I'm assuming you have photoshop or lightroom??

Nick - THANK YOU!!!

That is EXACTLY what I mean.... work flow was the word I was looking for rather than procedure but you must have understood me!

I am guilty for not always shooting in RAW, I do for clients and weddings - landscapes and 'my' stuff gets shot in JPEG high. Mainly because my comp and editing program PSP X3 Photo seems to dislike RAW files with a passion and everything takes 10x longer and 10x more space. I'm also very impatient, so tend to plough ahead with the pics I love leaving a graveyard of 'fodder' behind me, clogging up my HDD. I now realise the error of my ways, whether I can change them is a different matter

I may take the Xmas break to start categorising everything - you never know I may find some hidden gems in a long forgotten folder!

The CD burning is an idea - but again am I patient enough and organised enough I wonder?

Doesn't Lightroom allow you to organize on a ranking system? I think so.

I think so - I don't use it but even windows photo gallery has a star system now in the Live versions. I just wondered how others utilise work flow.

LOL no argument from me, I'm the same EXACT type of person, I hate deleting anything. Thinking that I might have reason later down the line to have that photo!

It's like you stepped inside my mind haha - not the best practice tho I'm finding!

Glad to help!

I'm not familiar at all with the Paint Shop Pro programs, but I'm sure you can make a workflow that does well for you. Does PSP allow working in layers?

I guess it doesn't really matter if it's JPG's or RAWs. Saving your PSP files beginning with the base file number is a real quick way of automatically pairing them with the base file. Making a seperate output folder also works if you're dealing with JPG's as the base files.

Just remember to edit and save those PSP files unsized and uncropped. There's been so many times I've wanted to go back to photos and recrop them....

FMVPhotography wrote:

LOL no argument from me, I'm the same EXACT type of person, I hate deleting anything. Thinking that I might have reason later down the line to have that photo!

It's like you stepped inside my mind haha - not the best practice tho I'm finding!

Haha, same thing here. Even though I succeed in getting rid of most unwanted shots, I end up keeping some because I think they might be enhanceable, manipulateable, or recropped effectively somewhere down the line. Usually not the case....usually