Rookies claiming to be Pro Photographer killing the industry?

9 years 5 months ago - 9 years 3 months ago #145145 by PNMBritt

I don't think so. Sounds to me like that lady was never a customer of yours to start with and you are much better off without her. I like SAAB's but I am not a SAAB customer, I am a Jeep customer. At this point in my life I would rather work as a photographer than drive a SAAB. Maybe one day I will have the client base to do both. That depends on my Acumen and my artistic skills. Not some guy that unwrapped a camera for Christmas, or even the cute girl at the department store portrait box. I wish those guys the best and welcome them to the guild.

I think most people charge what they are worth in the long run. If you sold SAAB's for $5000 you would soon be out of SAAB's. Sell Jeeps for $90,000 and you would not likely sell many Jeeps. This is my Opinion anyway, Who knows maybe I am wrong.

In life there have always been those who make fire; but most just sit around the fire and enjoy the warmth. A great mind absent of action is waste.
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9 years 5 months ago - 9 years 5 months ago #145163 by MLKstudios
Been a hot topic on the web (and other Social Media) lately. Even Zach has his opinions:

www.catherinehall.net/blog/2011/09/21/za...-photography-market/

Note that John (Black Star) is wrong, Don's two links shows he's actually worked as a photographer for a living, David (strobist) realizes he needs to go back to portfolio building and Rob (Photo Editor) shows why this is a Hot Topic.

The best advice, is to start out good (in business) and keep getting better. You'll like what you do, and not worry about the others.

Matthew :)

Matthew L Kees
MLK Studios Photography School
www.MLKstudios.com
[email protected]
"Every artist, was once an amateur"

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9 years 5 months ago #147722 by baldman11
I agree. Amateurs and rookies can kill your job flow and rate faster than anything. Part of the job sometimes is educating the client. I don't do weddings, but have found that I must constantly educate my commercial clients. It has become more so in this day and age of people trying to do everything themselves to try and save money. There is a reason to hire professionals in every aspect of a job. Especially if you are expecting professional results.


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9 years 3 months ago #164766 by Jeannie_Cee
If you didn't write this post I would've. You took the words right out of my mouth and I could not agree more with you.

It absolutely grates me to bits that people are doing this. Quality over quantity.

Sometimes you just have to say NO when you come across people like that because they have absolutely NO interest in good photography and only care about the price. I understand people are on budgets but you can still offer an affordable rate that won't kill people them but DON'T go to someone who is dirt cheap and still gives you horrible photos at the end of the day.
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9 years 3 months ago #164772 by rizzo
There are some people you should never do business with, regardless of price. You couldn't have made this person happy if you tried. She didn't do her homework in checking out the "cheaper-priced" photographer and now she's complaining to you. It doesn't make sense and she's at fault, not you.

Rookies aren't killing the business. Their work speaks for itself.

rizzophotos.com
flickr.com/greggrizzo
facebook.com/greggrizzo
facebook.com/rizzophotos1

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9 years 3 months ago - 9 years 3 months ago #164782 by Greg Warren Photography
On the flipside, here's my story - I'm an amateur photographer working toward making a profession out of my passion for photography. I've taken courses, I shoot pretty much every day, I watch what other photographers are doing and try to learn something from them, and I now have a mentor at a photography club that I'm a member of.

In August, I was asked by a friend to shoot her wedding. Not having any experience whatsoever shooting weddings, I referred her to a friend of mine who is a pro, and does have wedding photography experience. I should also say his work is outstanding. After looking at his website, she decided that his rates were out of her price range (unfortunate because I think she would have been thrilled with the results) and she again asked me to do it for $300. I agreed but with the strict understanding that she would likely not get the standard of photos that she might expect from a seasoned wedding photographer, that she would be responsible for the printing, and that because I only have one camera there was the chance that something could go wrong and the shooting would end before the affair was over. I felt it was my responsibility to advise her of the risks she was taking by not choosing an experienced wedding photographer. In the end, the shoot went well, I spent alot of time working on the photos and she was very happy with the results. Again, she approached me, I suggested a more experienced photographer, but she insisted that I do it.

Just thought I should write this to let you know that not ALL rookie photographers are looking to undercut the more experienced ones.


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9 years 3 months ago #164786 by love4shihtzu
Well said!


The following user(s) said Thank You: Greg Warren Photography
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9 years 3 months ago #164795 by love4shihtzu

photobod wrote: these are not my thoughts but I do agree with them.

Are second income shooters killing the wedding photography industry?

August 30th, 2011

A few truths: Professional doesn’t mean high quality and part time doesn’t mean poor quality. There is no correlation whatsoever. I see a good cross section of the industry as a trainer and there are good and bad photographers on both sides of the fence. There are uninsured professionals that churn out rubbish and there are expert amateurs making fine wedding albums. I agree with several of my Twitter followers that the term ‘weekend warrior’ is derogatory so I will use ‘second income shooter’ instead.

The perceived problem: Some full time professional photographers have a problem charging enough for their work to make living. Contrary to popular belief this problem is not the fault of second income shooters. As far as I can remember there have always been photographers who have had a regular job during the week and then shoot a wedding or two at the weekend. There have always been ‘Uncle Bobs’ prepared to do the job for free too. I started out as a second income shooter when I was at the BBC and so did many of the top professionals I know. It was, and still is, the sensible way for many to start out.

Market led prices: Market forces will always determine a fair price for the quality of photography on offer. The current oversupply in the middle and lower sectors of our industry has forced prices down. Acceptably good ‘pictures on disc’ photography packages can now be bought for around £1000. There is also a lot of rubbish on offer at this price point but those photographers offering inferior pictures or a poor customer experience will be less successful at getting clients unless they are expert marketeers. Brides do shop around.

Hobbyists are growing in number: Photography as a hobby is booming and nearly everyone it seems, now owns a good camera. There is an ever growing number of amateur photographers who want to start earning money from their cameras.

Amateurs have got good: It has become really difficult to take pictures that are significantly better than those that a keen amateur can take. Five or ten years ago when digital cameras were more expensive and kit lenses poorer in quality the pro-am gap was wide. Good DSLRs are cheap, easy to use and free to practice with.

Quality drop is market led: A growing number of the public no longer demand a high technical quality in photography. Just like the death of HiFi caused by the MP3 revolution, the photographic print has largely been replaced by the Facebook ready Jpeg taken on a smart phone. A young couple today don’t have a shoe box full of prints. Life has moved on since the turn of the century.

High quality still pays: The very best wedding photographers still earn a good living. So do the good second income photographers that hold on to all or part of their day job while photographing weddings at the weekend. Becoming a part time wedding photographer is often the wise choice in order to pay the bills and feed the family.

My advice to the full time professional: Be amazing, take fabulous pictures and deliver them in albums way beyond the scope of the amateur. Be the Jimmy Choo, or the Jaguar and charge a decent amount of money for a superb product. Be great at business. You will most likely spend 6 days working in your business for every 1 that you spend shooting weddings. Become a marketing expert and create an army of raving fans. They will be loyal and recommend you to their friends. Don’t blame others, stay positive and take responsibility for your actions. Embrace change and be creative.

My advice to the newcomer: Rise above the grumbles from disgruntled professionals. Get trained, do a great job, serve your customers well and enjoy your photography. If switching to part time is an option then consider that, but think carefully before giving up your job. Keep a steady income until you can charge enough for your wedding photography to replace it. Wedding photography can pay quite well but often not amazingly well, and certainly no more than it did five to ten years ago.

Damien Lovegrove.

LOVE THIS!!!!!


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9 years 3 months ago #164834 by Indy 001
There are always rookies. There are always pros and there are always people who are in between. We all have our level. It's up to us pros to keep up with the times and offer excellent quality work.

Very few people will redo their wedding photos, however people do get portraits taken yearly. So when it comes to portraits, if the client does not like the rookies photos, they will come to you.


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9 years 3 months ago #164902 by photoalaska
How would you decide who is a pro and who isnt? Be definition a pro is a person that gets paid for what they do. Or would you want them to have been a photographer for at least 50 years? There is no exact definition but each person has their own. I have gone into studios and shops and cant believe some of the stuff up on the wall. I dont like to take pics of people...so I wouldnt want to do a wedding because there is no do overs on someones day. Ive turned down many weddings for that reason but they wanted me since they had seen my animal,wildlife,landscapes,outdoor photos and I said that is totally different from people shoots.


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9 years 3 months ago #164926 by amielongphontography
My favorite is I know I am a rookie who is trying to improve everyday. I started my own studio and My sister in law, who thinks because she picks up a camera and take a few good pictures, is a professional. She tried to tell me that she was more professional than me but the one thing I noticed is that she Photoshops every picture and thinks she`s a professional. I have no problem with Photoshop just when its Over used. I got yell at by some peoples in a facebook page I use to follow for my pictures. Telling me I probably just started out with no classes or anything. But truth is I did take some schooling and I normally did Landscape photo`s and was trying to get into Portraits and I have been a "ROOKIE" for over 20 years never really said I was a professional. But yet people like my sister in law never gets people talking negative about her and she`s more of a "ROOKIE" than I am. All I can say is at least Im trying to improve my self. And that makes a Professional in my eyes.


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9 years 3 months ago #164950 by Scotty

rizzo wrote: There are some people you should never do business with, regardless of price. You couldn't have made this person happy if you tried. She didn't do her homework in checking out the "cheaper-priced" photographer and now she's complaining to you. It doesn't make sense and she's at fault, not you.

Rookies aren't killing the business. Their work speaks for itself.


My thoughts exactly. People get worked up too much. None of this is new.

When the last candle has been blown out
and the last glass of champagne has been drunk
All that you are left with are the memories and the images-David Cooke.

Photo Comments
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9 years 3 months ago #165176 by Stealthy Ninja

Scotty wrote:

rizzo wrote: There are some people you should never do business with, regardless of price. You couldn't have made this person happy if you tried. She didn't do her homework in checking out the "cheaper-priced" photographer and now she's complaining to you. It doesn't make sense and she's at fault, not you.

Rookies aren't killing the business. Their work speaks for itself.


My thoughts exactly. People get worked up too much. None of this is new.


Back in your box rookie! :whistle: :evil: :toocrazy:
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9 years 3 months ago #170315 by JHoward
Well if someone is over promising beyond their known skill set, than this is wrong. If their claims or call it expectations they are setting are reasonably just higher of reality, then that is fine by me.

Canon 7D & 1D MK III, Canon 10-22mm, 16-35mm f2.8L II, 24-70mm f2.8L, 70-200mm f2.8L IS, 300mm f2.8L IS, 200mm f2L IS, 50mm f1.4, 50mm f1.2L, 85mm f1.
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9 years 3 months ago #170550 by Rob pix4u2
Just because you have a DSLR doesn't make you a photographer though I have met some folks who think that it does. I personally know of at least two instances of "bad photographers" in the past 6 months who took umbrage with me over the lack of quality of their work and on e who is assigned to follow a friend of mine who is a team mascot who doesn't know that a photo can be done in portrait orientation.

Remember to engage brain before putting mouth in gear
Rob Huelsman Sr.
My Facebook www.facebook.com/ImaginACTIONPhotography

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