Why do people think photography is not art?

2 months 3 weeks ago - 2 months 3 weeks ago #735914 by r1ch

Esseff wrote: Who is to be the judge? I don't know. But I do believe we need to be a lot more discerning. Calling everything art simply because it's liked by some people diminishes real art. It would be like everybody getting the same trophy just for attending. I know this is a controversial point for some but mediocrity should not be elevated to the same level as true greatness. There needs to be discernment.


I think you can make discernment. You could say Fine art, or Child art. or bad art.
The problem is we are human. I don't want to say to you or to anyone when you post a photograph here. "Dude, your photo sucks or it is bad art" Especially if you put a bunch of time into it and it still sucks the person is a beginner and has no concept of composition.
Now if you enter that photo into a contest, a judge will tell you your image sucks if it does. He may even say it is not art but a snapshot. Or if you go into a forum and they have a critique section. If your photo is not good they will tell you why.

I agree with you. I do not believe everyone should be handed a participation trophy. We have elementary schools that have sports like running a race. They do not award anyone with first place, everyone gets a trophy. I think that is bad. But you should encourage the slow children to do better and excel so they can get the first place trophy.
At my motocross track locally I would help out and take pictures. Parents complained that their children did not get a trophy when they would pay $35 dollars for their child to race. The owner of the track would not give everyone a trophy, instead he gave every child an ice cream but the child that got first place, would get a trophy. (I am not so sure rewarding children with sugar is a good thing but that was the answer to his problem)

But posting on a forum like this one and someone calls their snapshot art, who am I to judge. If they are here for a for a critique, I do not want to be the one to give a critique. Who am I to judge someone else's photos when mine are not that great. It makes me kind of mad when people on this board say your image has halos, or is not sharp, when their photos have the exact same flaws, they are hypocrites. So I avoid critiquing others images when my images have flaws. But if I like an image. I will tell them I like it. But you will never here me say, your image is not art, or that your image is bad art. I would not want to discourage someone starting out so they quit photography, and is all they had to do was work on it or take some courses to become better. That is the human part of it. If you want to tell people their pictures suck or are not art, you go right ahead  :cheer:
:duel:


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2 months 3 weeks ago #735935 by Esseff

r1ch wrote:

Esseff wrote: Who is to be the judge? I don't know. But I do believe we need to be a lot more discerning. Calling everything art simply because it's liked by some people diminishes real art. It would be like everybody getting the same trophy just for attending. I know this is a controversial point for some but mediocrity should not be elevated to the same level as true greatness. There needs to be discernment.


I think you can make discernment. You could say Fine art, or Child art. or bad art.
The problem is we are human. I don't want to say to you or to anyone when you post a photograph here. "Dude, your photo sucks or it is bad art" Especially if you put a bunch of time into it and it still sucks the person is a beginner and has no concept of composition.
Now if you enter that photo into a contest, a judge will tell you your image sucks if it does. He may even say it is not art but a snapshot. Or if you go into a forum and they have a critique section. If your photo is not good they will tell you why.

I agree with you. I do not believe everyone should be handed a participation trophy. We have elementary schools that have sports like running a race. They do not award anyone with first place, everyone gets a trophy. I think that is bad. But you should encourage the slow children to do better and excel so they can get the first place trophy.
At my motocross track locally I would help out and take pictures. Parents complained that their children did not get a trophy when they would pay $35 dollars for their child to race. The owner of the track would not give everyone a trophy, instead he gave every child an ice cream but the child that got first place, would get a trophy. (I am not so sure rewarding children with sugar is a good thing but that was the answer to his problem)

But posting on a forum like this one and someone calls their snapshot art, who am I to judge. If they are here for a for a critique, I do not want to be the one to give a critique. Who am I to judge someone else's photos when mine are not that great. It makes me kind of mad when people on this board say your image has halos, or is not sharp, when their photos have the exact same flaws, they are hypocrites. So I avoid critiquing others images when my images have flaws. But if I like an image. I will tell them I like it. But you will never here me say, your image is not art, or that your image is bad art. I would not want to discourage someone starting out so they quit photography, and is all they had to do was work on it or take some courses to become better. That is the human part of it. If you want to tell people their pictures suck or are not art, you go right ahead  :cheer:
:duel:


I actually agree with all of that. The last sentence though... this may just be a clash of cultures. We Germans are a very direct people, we say things as they are. Not with the purpose to offend, but it is what it is so why would we not say it?


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2 months 3 weeks ago #735940 by r1ch

Esseff wrote:
I actually agree with all of that. The last sentence though... this may just be a clash of cultures. We Germans are a very direct people, we say things as they are. Not with the purpose to offend, but it is what it is so why would we not say it?


I agree with your culture. I think we should be more direct. I like Jordon Peterson.. One of the things he says is. "In order to be able to think, you have to risk being offensive."  The problem is, you don't make friends being offensive. I have had a number of debates here where people were trying to quiet my opinion and tell me I was wrong. I felt I made a convincing argument to at least consider I was right but if you do this, you don't gain friends and you make enemies. It is always a balance when thinking or discussing. I respect that everyone has a right to an opinion. But I do not necessarily respect every opinion. And some people contend their opinion is fact, which is usually where it breaks down.

But back to our discussion. You may say things the way they are, but sometimes it is that you the way you THINK things are. Others might think differently. At that point you have to agree to disagree or it escalates.


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