Sticky situation here regarding boudoir photo shoot with 18 year old girl

The fact that she's still in high school has more weight to me than her "legal" age. I don't get people saying 18 is the same as 30. No it's not. The brain isn't fully developed until mid 20s (why are car rental companies the only people that realize this?) so a "legal adult" is not really a mental adult. So your apprehension IS justified. Laws do not equal morality.

In any case, why does a high school student want boudoir shots and why did someone recommend you to her for that? If you aren't comfortable, doubtful the shots will be stellar, regardless of the legalities. But as others said, a chaperone is a great idea.

Not to be judging. More addressing the general topic. The human body is a beautiful thing and it's her choice what to do with it. But, she's still an adolescent, not an adult.

I dont really know what you mean by the brain isnt fully developed until the mid 20's. You have an adult sized brain by like the age of 10, then its simply a matter of forming new white matter/neural pathways. This is a process that happens most quickly during puberty, but its a life long process. it never stops. Comparing an 18yo to a 30yo is like comparing a 30yo to 60yo. The 18 yo will not have the same experience/wisdom/maturity as the 30 yo. but neither will the 30 yo have the same experience/maturity as a 60yo. That doesnt mean a 30yo is incapable of making informed decisions, any more than an 18yo is.

And when does highschool finish in the US? where im from you are done highschool by the time you are about 16-17. If youre 18 or older and still in highschool it means youve failed a grade or two. an 18yo should be in college or working...

Oh boy Todd you sure opened up a can of worms!

This is an interesting debate. I have started shooting boudoirs and it's quite fun but personally I don't think I'd be comfortable working with a girl that young. What is she using these photos for? My clients so far have been getting them for their significant others. Does she want to model? If so tell her you'll do a fashion shoot instead. Try to veer her away from boudoir.

Seniors in high school are usually 17 or 18 when they graduate, so many are turning 18 during their senior year. That can make for a potentially tricky situation when they become legal adults while still in school.

I've worked with infants and toddlers so infant brain development I know more than being up on the latest research on brain development of older children/young adults. I don't think though that at that age it's considered that maturity has fully developed so I think Nika is probably on the right track.

As mentioned earlier in the thread, doctors have a nurse in the examing room, it's to protect them and the patient. So for such a photo shoot, it's for the model's/customer's and the photographer's protection to have someone else present.

geoffellis wrote: I dont really know what you mean by the brain isnt fully developed until the mid 20's. You have an adult sized brain by like the age of 10, then its simply a matter of forming new white matter/neural pathways. This is a process that happens most quickly during puberty, but its a life long process. it never stops. Comparing an 18yo to a 30yo is like comparing a 30yo to 60yo. The 18 yo will not have the same experience/wisdom/maturity as the 30 yo. but neither will the 30 yo have the same experience/maturity as a 60yo. That doesnt mean a 30yo is incapable of making informed decisions, any more than an 18yo is.

And when does highschool finish in the US? where im from you are done highschool by the time you are about 16-17. If youre 18 or older and still in highschool it means youve failed a grade or two. an 18yo should be in college or working...

I graduated at 17 because my birthday is in August, but I was always one of the youngest in my classes. 18 is the typical age to graduate here.

As far as my claims about the brain, I learned this because of extensive reading on the latest findings in neuroscience. Here are a couple articles I just looked up that kind of summarize.

"The continuous study uses magnetic resonance imaging to scan 2,000 people’s brains every two years. It has been found that teenage brains have extra synapses in the areas where decision making and risk assessment take place. Most of these synapses are useless and even get in the way of one’s judgment. Eventually, as teenagers become adults the synapses disappear, but the findings imply that many life choices are made before the brain’s decision making center is fully developed."

www.academic.marist.edu/mwwatch/fall05/science1.htm

and:

"Jensen says scientists used to think human brain development was pretty complete by age 10. Or as she puts it, that "a teenage brain is just an adult brain with fewer miles on it."

But it's not. To begin with, she says, a crucial part of the brain — the frontal lobes — are not fully connected. Really."

www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=124119468

In short the difference between teens and people in their 30s is NOT just experience gathering and wisdom gleaning. It's biological.

You could tell her to bring her mother along as a chaperone! And verify that it is her mother.

NikaTraveler wrote:

geoffellis wrote: I dont really know what you mean by the brain isnt fully developed until the mid 20's. You have an adult sized brain by like the age of 10, then its simply a matter of forming new white matter/neural pathways. This is a process that happens most quickly during puberty, but its a life long process. it never stops. Comparing an 18yo to a 30yo is like comparing a 30yo to 60yo. The 18 yo will not have the same experience/wisdom/maturity as the 30 yo. but neither will the 30 yo have the same experience/maturity as a 60yo. That doesnt mean a 30yo is incapable of making informed decisions, any more than an 18yo is.

And when does highschool finish in the US? where im from you are done highschool by the time you are about 16-17. If youre 18 or older and still in highschool it means youve failed a grade or two. an 18yo should be in college or working...

I graduated at 17 because my birthday is in August, but I was always one of the youngest in my classes. 18 is the typical age to graduate here.

As far as my claims about the brain, I learned this because of extensive reading on the latest findings in neuroscience. Here are a couple articles I just looked up that kind of summarize.

"The continuous study uses magnetic resonance imaging to scan 2,000 people’s brains every two years. It has been found that teenage brains have extra synapses in the areas where decision making and risk assessment take place. Most of these synapses are useless and even get in the way of one’s judgment. Eventually, as teenagers become adults the synapses disappear, but the findings imply that many life choices are made before the brain’s decision making center is fully developed."

www.academic.marist.edu/mwwatch/fall05/science1.htm

and:

"Jensen says scientists used to think human brain development was pretty complete by age 10. Or as she puts it, that "a teenage brain is just an adult brain with fewer miles on it."

But it's not. To begin with, she says, a crucial part of the brain — the frontal lobes — are not fully connected. Really."

www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=124119468

In short the difference between teens and people in their 30s is NOT just experience gathering and wisdom gleaning. It's biological.

Actually those are false. The reason for 18 year olds being so childish in todays society is that they are treated like children for longer than they should be. When I was 18 my brain was fully developed enough to make my own decisions, hell it was that way when I was 16. I was the oldest in the family and had helped to raise the kids and was working a regular construction job. In the bygone eras kids were married and having their own families at 14 and up. And you want to know what they were twice the adult that many in their twenties are now that I meet. Not everyone is at the same level in life at any given point and time, some of us actually had to be adults before we even finished school age. In this case and every case it is the rule of nurture and nature. By nature we develop as fast as is required to survive life. All of that psysho babble is crap.
So yes if they are 18 I will shoot them.

Well this seems to be getting rather off track but I think I read something too recently about brain research that's been done that showed more differences than previously thought in a teenage brain compared to an adult - there's always new scientific and medical research being done and we're always learning something new.

You could use the legal age as a guideline and then for a photo shoot set up whatever you think is right for you as a photographer.

Joves wrote: Actually those are false. The reason for 18 year olds being so childish in todays society is that they are treated like children for longer than they should be. When I was 18 my brain was fully developed enough to make my own decisions, hell it was that way when I was 16. I was the oldest in the family and had helped to raise the kids and was working a regular construction job. In the bygone eras kids were married and having their own families at 14 and up. And you want to know what they were twice the adult that many in their twenties are now that I meet. Not everyone is at the same level in life at any given point and time, some of us actually had to be adults before we even finished school age. In this case and every case it is the rule of nurture and nature. By nature we develop as fast as is required to survive life. All of that psysho babble is crap.
So yes if they are 18 I will shoot them.

I agree. my parents were drug addicted losers living off welfare. by age 15-16 i was the most responsible one in the household. which is when i left. it was a harder life, but i dont regret the decision.

Im not saying that an 18yo has the same brain activity as a 30yo... im sure there is still development to be had... but the essential decision making skills are present. they may not be as quick as an adult, or the risk factor might be higher... but they are more than capable of coming to an informed conclusion/decision.

Play nice guys.

This is about A) comfort level of the photographer
Legal age of a paying client
C) Having a chaperone of the female gender present
Pretty simple really , brain development and decision making ability aside, this boils down to Todd do you think you will do a good job for this client? Obviously your previous clients think you will.do a good shoot. Documentation is the key here. Accept the client and do the shoot as you would for an "older" client. Protect both yourself and the client by hiring / having present a female assistant of your choosing - that should put both the client and you at ease. It is really no different than when my wife does the Bride getting dressed pictures prior to a wedding except that when she is present if I am doing the photography

Rob pix4u2 wrote: This is about A) comfort level of the photographer
Legal age of a paying client
C) Having a chaperone of the female gender present
Pretty simple really , brain development and decision making ability aside, this boils down to Todd do you think you will do a good job for this client? Obviously your previous clients think you will.do a good shoot. Documentation is the key here. Accept the client and do the shoot as you would for an "older" client. Protect both yourself and the client by hiring / having present a female assistant of your choosing - that should put both the client and you at ease. It is really no different than when my wife does the Bride getting dressed pictures prior to a wedding except that when she is present if I am doing the photography

It's all about comfort level, personally I'm with you. I'd pass.

I'm not a pro photographer, just a grandson shooting amateur, but I AM a pro lawyer - in Ohio, 18 is 18 - and unless the person is under some sort of disability turning 18 means the door opens to all the perks, benefits and responsibilities of adulthood... Regardless of whether the brain of the 18, 33 or 55 yr old SHOULD be making decisions, they are legally bound by their decisions...

To me, this is a comfort level thing - the prior posts are good
- confirm age, keep copies
- have a "witness" of YOUR choosing in the room - let her bring whoever she wants.
- treat her like you would treat any other 33, 44, 55 or 66 yr old...
- have her sign a waiver before the shoot and consider some sort of post-shoot document in which she provides feedback on the shoot - just to show that it went well...

If someone wants to hire you, you ALWAYS have the right to say NO Thank You... I often turn down cases/clients based on a gut feeling that something doesn't feel right... or a gut feeling that this person is going to become a major pain the butt... I get to pick who my clients are and if the hair on the back of my neck stands up, or my gut feels weird, I turn them down... NOBODY needs the money THAT bad ...

Steve Magas

bikelawyer wrote: I'm not a pro photographer, just a grandson shooting amateur, but I AM a pro lawyer - in Ohio, 18 is 18 - and unless the person is under some sort of disability turning 18 means the door opens to all the perks, benefits and responsibilities of adulthood... Regardless of whether the brain of the 18, 33 or 55 yr old SHOULD be making decisions, they are legally bound by their decisions...

To me, this is a comfort level thing - the prior posts are good
- confirm age, keep copies
- have a "witness" of YOUR choosing in the room - let her bring whoever she wants.
- treat her like you would treat any other 33, 44, 55 or 66 yr old...
- have her sign a waiver before the shoot and consider some sort of post-shoot document in which she provides feedback on the shoot - just to show that it went well...

If someone wants to hire you, you ALWAYS have the right to say NO Thank You... I often turn down cases/clients based on a gut feeling that something doesn't feel right... or a gut feeling that this person is going to become a major pain the butt... I get to pick who my clients are and if the hair on the back of my neck stands up, or my gut feels weird, I turn them down... NOBODY needs the money THAT bad ...

Steve Magas