1. Forum
  2. General Discussion | Introductions | Off Topic Forum
  3. Photography General Discussion
  4. Should I go full frame?

Should I go full frame?


5 years 2 weeks ago #638420 by spudalicious

Shadowfixer1 wrote: DOF changes on crop sensors because you change the distance to the subject to get the same composition. That is why DOF changes on crop sensors. It's the distance, not the f-stop or lens.   

  

For the record, this ^^^^ is my general philosophy as well.

For me, one of the coolest things about photography is that it is a blend of science (gear) AND art.  Due to the dual nature of the hobby/profession, we don't always need to have the math and specs in place to answer questions like this (and also the OP original question)  

Using the artistic approach:  There are a multitude of image showcases found on the internet for the various camera/lens combinations.   If those can't be found, well worded searches on flickr and google will also yield sample images for the various combinations.   When, the math/specs are getting me nowhere, I can always just go view the photography of other (better) photographers to see what they have managed to produce with the gear combo in question.    The results are right there to see and judge for myself.   I don't have to listen to what youtubers are saying.   
Photo Comments
The following user(s) said Thank You: Chase Audate
,
5 years 2 weeks ago #638600 by Nathan D
I was going to come in here with a general thought on the subject, however after reading some of the posts here.  You have me thinking!
Photo Comments
The following user(s) said Thank You: Chase Audate
,
5 years 2 weeks ago #638634 by GaryA
I think Northrup is full of it.  The F-/stop is a ratio of the entrance pupil (front element) to the lens length ... it has nothing to to with sensor size.  Just for simplicity, imagine a wall with the light light falling equally across the wall.  Assume you are shooting the wall with a FF F/2.8 lens.  You shoot the wall @ F/2.8, the light will hit across the entire sensor at F/2.8 (period).  You shoot the wall at F/8, the light will hit across the entire sensor at F/8, et cetera.  On an APS-C sensor or MFT sensor, (or any sensor smaller than FF), you use the same F/2.8 lens and the light will fall across the entire sensor equally @ F/2.8, @ F/8 or @ F/22. 

This is why a handheld light meter works for all cameras and all lenses and all sensors and film.  1/1000 of a second shutter is the same 1/1000 for all cameras, lenses and sensors. Similarly, F/4 is the same for all cameras, lenses and sensors.

(Note: Using a MFT/APS-C lens on a FF will not project the light equally across the entire sensor.)
There are photographs everywhere. It is the call of photographers to see and capture those images.
www: garyayala.com
The following user(s) said Thank You: Chase Audate
,
5 years 2 weeks ago #638638 by GaryA

Shadowfixer1 wrote:  

I will say this and not trying to be a smart azz. If you don't know what your missing by having a full frame for the type of images you make, then you don't need one. If you need full frame you will know why your camera is failing you and your requirements. [/quote]

There is a lot of truth to this.  
There are photographs everywhere. It is the call of photographers to see and capture those images.
www: garyayala.com
,
5 years 2 weeks ago #638773 by Chase Audate

Nikon Shooter wrote:

Chase Audate wrote: just get another body.  A full frame one. 


Two bodies of the same format will go, IMO
but don't go with two formats!



I see, is that because of the additional gear?  I thought you can use the full frame lenses on the crop camera and be OK?
Photo Comments
,
5 years 2 weeks ago #638794 by Shadowfixer1

Chase Audate wrote:

Nikon Shooter wrote:

Chase Audate wrote: just get another body.  A full frame one. 


Two bodies of the same format will go, IMO
but don't go with two formats!



I see, is that because of the additional gear?  I thought you can use the full frame lenses on the crop camera and be OK?

I don't know Shooter's reasoning for not mixing formats, but many pros that shoot landscape and wildlife use both full frame and crop sensor cameras. Full frame for landscape and crop for wildlife. This is especially true for Nikon shooters. Most use the D500 for wildlife and take your pick of full frame bodies for landscape but generally the D850. Yes, you can use your full frame lens on a crop body and be just fine. There has been plenty of discussion in the thread about that. Just use common sense about these things and you will be O.K. People act like it's more complex and complicated than it is. Photography now is easier than it's ever been.
www.betterphoto.com/?ramshots
Photo Comments
,
5 years 2 weeks ago #638799 by GaryA

Chase Audate wrote:

Nikon Shooter wrote:

Chase Audate wrote: just get another body.  A full frame one. 


Two bodies of the same format will go, IMO
but don't go with two formats!



I see, is that because of the additional gear?  I thought you can use the full frame lenses on the crop camera and be OK?


When I first moved to FF, I had an APS-C (20D) and a FF (5D). Typically, I shoot with two cameras, one setup for long and the other setup for wide. As it was easier to go long with the APS-C, I would set-up the 20D with a telephoto lens and as the FF is easier to go wide, I tossed a wide angle lens on the 5D.

I found it worked out quite well and easily.  (But I am a very experienced photographer.) The 20D was one of Canon's very early dSLRs and have very poor IQ at elevated ISO's. The 5D was soooo much superior in low light than the 20D that I quickly replaced the 20D with a 1D, for the superior low light performance.

(Not that it matters ... but I'm now shooting Fuji APS-C.)
There are photographs everywhere. It is the call of photographers to see and capture those images.
www: garyayala.com
,
5 years 2 weeks ago #638809 by Chase Audate
OK, so I have options.  Options are good.  As long as I can have one lens set and be able to use them on both camera bodies.  I'm good with that.  
Photo Comments
,
5 years 2 weeks ago #639265 by Troponin

Shadowfixer1 wrote: Watch this. Ken is a little out there but he is pretty dang smart when it comes to gear. 


I watched this and he missed the point of what Tony was saying and I don't think his video disproved it. Tony was saying that the image isn't as sharp on a crop sensor and he wasn't wrong. Ken tried to perform the experiment with as few variables as possible and in the process, actually went off on a tangent that was unrelated. 

Ken cropped the full frame photos down to the same field of view as the crop sensor, but that changes the entire argument Tony was talking about. If you take a crop sensor photo and compare it to a full frame photo, the IQ isn't as good. If you don't need a crop sensor, your images will look worse. The idea is to get as close as you can with a lens first, then go crop if you can't get there. Tony was saying that crop might not be for you if you aren't having to crop your full sensor images much. 

Second, back to the angle of view vs field of view. I don't think he mentions angle at all, so I didn't get to hear his thoughts on that. He mentions several times how it's necessary to crop to the same FoV. 

I'm not saying Ken is wrong, the information is just missing and I dont think it's quite the same argument. Tony wasn't talking about cropping, so Ken changed the argument to prove him wrong? 
Photo Comments
,
5 years 2 weeks ago #639278 by GaryA
While purely anecdotal (nonscientific), when I was shooting Canon FF and APS-C, both with FF lenses. I did not see a difference in sharpness.  If anything, I would think the edges of the APS-C would be sharper than the FF because the APS-C is capturing light/image only from the sweet spot of the lens. 
There are photographs everywhere. It is the call of photographers to see and capture those images.
www: garyayala.com
The following user(s) said Thank You: Troponin
,
5 years 2 weeks ago #639292 by Shadowfixer1
Tony's argument was that a full frame lens is not as sharp on a crop sensor. That is just totally and completely wrong. The lens projects the same sharpness out the rear no matter what size sensor, film or ground glass is behind it. Now, the sensor design, the efficiency of the camera software etc. can make a difference but that is not related to the lens. Some full frame lenses will be less sharp on some full frame cameras than other full frame cameras. Is the projected image different for each camera. No, it's not. The sharpness of the lens and projected image is constant. The ability to capture that sharpness is the variable. Pixel pitch, micro lens design on the sensor, etc. are the factors, not sensor size.
www.betterphoto.com/?ramshots
Photo Comments
The following user(s) said Thank You: Troponin
,
5 years 2 weeks ago #639299 by Troponin

GaryA wrote: While purely anecdotal (nonscientific), when I was shooting Canon FF and APS-C, both with FF lenses. I did not see a difference in sharpness.  If anything, I would think the edges of the APS-C would be sharper than the FF because the APS-C is capturing light/image only from the sweet spot of the lens. 


I have absolutely no reason to dispute that and the logic is sound. This entire issue could very well be based on anecdotal evidence and I stumbled upon two too many sources that went in depth about this all and got hooked in. 

Honestly, this is why I prefer to have discussions/debates. If someone has a reasonable debate, I'm all ears. Unfortunately the Interwebs inflates egos (well, more than usual hehe) and that means less folks are willing to even consider giving their input because they feel it won't do any good, maybe cause a flame war. I also try to treat folks the same on the internet as I would IRL. That's not to say I don't get a bit defensive from time to time though. ;)  I just have too much to lose and not enough to gain by being an a**hat to people. 
Photo Comments
,

  1. Forum
  2. General Discussion | Introductions | Off Topic Forum
  3. Photography General Discussion
  4. Should I go full frame?

817.3K

241K

  • Facebook

    817,251 / Likes

  • Twitter

    241,000 / Followers

  • Google+

    1,620,816 / Followers

Show Me...

Visit 4wdtlak Forum
Saal

Latest Reviews

Canon EOS R100 Review

The Canon EOS R100 is an entry-level mirrorless camera introduced in 2023. But just because it’s an entry-level camera doesn’t mean it’s a bare-bones camera. Find out why in this review!

Apr 22, 2024
Nikon Zfc Review

Nikon’s retro-looking Nikon Zfc is anything but retro. Under its classic body is a host of features and amenities that make it a worthwhile compact mirrorless camera for 2024.

Apr 15, 2024
Canon EOS R50 Review

The Canon EOS R50 is one of the newest R-system cameras from Canon. Is it worth your money? Find out all the details you need to know in this comprehensive review.

Apr 10, 2024
Sony FE 70-200mm f/2.8 GM OSS II Review

The Sony FE 70-200mm f/2.8 GM OSS II is Sony’s flagship mirrorless zoom lens. As such, it’s loaded with features and has a top-shelf build quality that makes it a top pick!

Mar 27, 2024
More Articles
Get 600+ Pro photo lessons for $1

Forum Top Posters

Sponsored Imageimages2/vanguard1.jpgSponsored Imageimages/stories/ad_agency/2/1559071052.jpg
Sponsored ImageSponsored Image

Latest Articles

5 Keys for More Impactful Photos of Landscapes

Creating impactful photos of landscapes depends on many factors, not the least of which is your talent behind the lens. This guide explores other elements required for the best product.

Apr 23, 2024
Canon EOS R100 Review

The Canon EOS R100 is an entry-level mirrorless camera introduced in 2023. But just because it’s an entry-level camera doesn’t mean it’s a bare-bones camera. Find out why in this review!

Apr 22, 2024
Expert Tips to Upgrade Your Camera Gear With Used Equipment

Are you ready to upgrade your camera? Before buying new, you might consider the value of purchasing used gear to save money.

Apr 18, 2024
Olympus OM-D E-M10 Mark IV vs Olympus OM-D E-M5 Mark III

The Olympus OM-D E-M10 Mark IV is a micro four thirds camera released in 2020. It’s an entry-level system along with the OM-D E-M5 Mark III. Use this guide to determine which one is best for you!

Apr 17, 2024
What is Blue Hour Photography?

Blue hour photography might not be as well known as golden hour photography, but it is every bit as good a time to create epic images of landscapes. Learn how in this quick tutorial!

Apr 17, 2024
Nikon Zfc Review

Nikon’s retro-looking Nikon Zfc is anything but retro. Under its classic body is a host of features and amenities that make it a worthwhile compact mirrorless camera for 2024.

Apr 15, 2024
5 Dog Photography Tips for Stunning Results

Moving from taking snapshots of your dog to creating beautiful images doesn’t have to be that difficult! Use the tips outlined in this dog photography guide, and you’ll get better results in no time.

Apr 15, 2024
FAQs About Acrylic Print Photos

Acrylic print photos are a beautiful way to display your favorite images. But they don’t come without some questions. Get all the answers you need about this medium in this guide!

Apr 15, 2024
More Articles