Manual mode vs aperture priority.

To avoid derailing the other thread, i made this thread for everybody to discuss the benefits and have a healthy discussion.

I started out shooting manual all the time and now just use Aperture priority about 85% of the time.  Personally I like this mode the best.  

Oh goody a fresh start (I think?) 

Deal is:  PAS modes (with or without EC) react to changes in the scene.  Manual makes it super easy to ignore those changes.  So . . . which I use depends on whether I want changes in the scene to influence the exposure.  In the majority of cases I do want this auto reaction to the scene, so I don't bother with Manual mode much.  But I am not married forever to any one mode.

Kelly Cook

Scotty wrote: ...and have a healthy discussion.

I think that horse left the dock.

garyrhook wrote:

Scotty wrote: ...and have a healthy discussion.

I think that horse left the dock.

Well even though I posted in the other thread. I will preface this post with if you feel any of the Auto Modes work for you then use them, and good for you.     
AS for me, and the response to that I was not giving a technical reason for using it, that is false. My technical reason was that Nikons at least I tend to find that they Over Expose in P,S, and A Modes. So for me I will never use them, and have not for a few years. Just stating that you can compensate that with the EC function is just another unnecessary step to me. How that can be considered better is beyond me, well as far as my shooting style goes. I can adjust my shutter speed, and aperture with the flick of a finger, and thumb at the same time to get what I want, and not have to go to a function button to reset if the lighting changes. In MM I just change either bot, or one setting with the wheels near the focus, and shutter release. Also all of you Modes as said are indeed decided by the meter, which I find over exposes most of the time, so your modes will over expose, or not expose correctly. This is why they left manual in.
And before I hear I do not know how to use EC then, or those Modes correctly. I do know how to use them, but do not care for them. Also I know what every function of my Picture Controls do as well, but am not arrogant enough to think that I can shoot solely in Jpeg. The first thing I have done with my cameras when I bought them was comparative shooting playing with the settings, and exposures. On the subject I think MM is far superior to Aperture Priority, or the other Modes. As far as having to watch, or forgetting to look at my meter when I am shooting, I do not even have to think about it, because it is second nature for me to see the settings.
So as I said if the Modes float your boat good for you, but don't try to make me sound like a luddite for thinking they are junk to me. Lets keep this civil.

Joves wrote: I will preface this post with if you feel any of the Auto Modes work for you then use them, and good for you.     
AS for me, and the response to that I was not giving a technical reason for using it, that is false.

I agree: if it works for you, that's fine.

There were a lot of false statements made in that thread. It's important to know when to fold 'em.

I shoot Nikon because it makes sense to me; I don't care for Canons. I shoot MM because it makes sense to me, and if thorough control isn't a technical reason, I don't know what is.

garyrhook wrote:

Joves wrote: I will preface this post with if you feel any of the Auto Modes work for you then use them, and good for you.     
AS for me, and the response to that I was not giving a technical reason for using it, that is false.

I agree: if it works for you, that's fine.

There were a lot of false statements made in that thread. It's important to know when to fold 'em.

I shoot Nikon because it makes sense to me; I don't care for Canons. I shoot MM because it makes sense to me, and if thorough control isn't a technical reason, I don't know what is.

Results are what matter. 

Each have a purpose in my book.  I use aperture priority for nearly all my work, but for still shots like landscapes and macro, there is no substitute for manual mode.

Joves wrote:

garyrhook wrote:

Scotty wrote: ...and have a healthy discussion.

I think that horse left the dock.

Well even though I posted in the other thread. I will preface this post with if you feel any of the Auto Modes work for you then use them, and good for you.     
AS for me, and the response to that I was not giving a technical reason for using it, that is false. My technical reason was that Nikons at least I tend to find that they Over Expose in P,S, and A Modes. So for me I will never use them, and have not for a few years. Just stating that you can compensate that with the EC function is just another unnecessary step to me. How that can be considered better is beyond me, well as far as my shooting style goes. I can adjust my shutter speed, and aperture with the flick of a finger, and thumb at the same time to get what I want, and not have to go to a function button to reset if the lighting changes. In MM I just change either bot, or one setting with the wheels near the focus, and shutter release. Also all of you Modes as said are indeed decided by the meter, which I find over exposes most of the time, so your modes will over expose, or not expose correctly. This is why they left manual in.
And before I hear I do not know how to use EC then, or those Modes correctly. I do know how to use them, but do not care for them. Also I know what every function of my Picture Controls do as well, but am not arrogant enough to think that I can shoot solely in Jpeg. The first thing I have done with my cameras when I bought them was comparative shooting playing with the settings, and exposures. On the subject I think MM is far superior to Aperture Priority, or the other Modes. As far as having to watch, or forgetting to look at my meter when I am shooting, I do not even have to think about it, because it is second nature for me to see the settings.
So as I said if the Modes float your boat good for you, but don't try to make me sound like a luddite for thinking they are junk to me. Lets keep this civil.

Manual mode and aperture priority with the same settings, the needle in the middle will expose the exact same.

Joves wrote:  My technical reason was that Nikons at least I tend to find that they Over Expose in P,S, and A Modes. .

The obvious solution is obvious. 

Scotty wrote:

Joves wrote:

garyrhook wrote:

Scotty wrote: ...and have a healthy discussion.

I think that horse left the dock.

Well even though I posted in the other thread. I will preface this post with if you feel any of the Auto Modes work for you then use them, and good for you.     
AS for me, and the response to that I was not giving a technical reason for using it, that is false. My technical reason was that Nikons at least I tend to find that they Over Expose in P,S, and A Modes. So for me I will never use them, and have not for a few years. Just stating that you can compensate that with the EC function is just another unnecessary step to me. How that can be considered better is beyond me, well as far as my shooting style goes. I can adjust my shutter speed, and aperture with the flick of a finger, and thumb at the same time to get what I want, and not have to go to a function button to reset if the lighting changes. In MM I just change either bot, or one setting with the wheels near the focus, and shutter release. Also all of you Modes as said are indeed decided by the meter, which I find over exposes most of the time, so your modes will over expose, or not expose correctly. This is why they left manual in.
And before I hear I do not know how to use EC then, or those Modes correctly. I do know how to use them, but do not care for them. Also I know what every function of my Picture Controls do as well, but am not arrogant enough to think that I can shoot solely in Jpeg. The first thing I have done with my cameras when I bought them was comparative shooting playing with the settings, and exposures. On the subject I think MM is far superior to Aperture Priority, or the other Modes. As far as having to watch, or forgetting to look at my meter when I am shooting, I do not even have to think about it, because it is second nature for me to see the settings.
So as I said if the Modes float your boat good for you, but don't try to make me sound like a luddite for thinking they are junk to me. Lets keep this civil.

Manual mode and aperture priority with the same settings, the needle in the middle will expose the exact same.

This is true. If AP by some chance gives you the exact same settings as M, then it will be exactly the same... The point is, will AP give you the correct settings or will something in the scene confuse it?

As I said in the old thread (or something similar at least):
If your using EC, why not just go all the way and get full control with MM?

EC can change when light changes, therefore your settings get messed up (say you know that faces in the audience need X settings, then some strong back light comes behind them, maybe from the stage, using EC would make your setting way too dark for your subject (stupid camera).

EC might work for one shot, but don't expect it to be constant. If you want to have your settings to be constant, then manual is the only way to go.

Not saying auto modes and EC can't work, but they don't know light so well. Also, I only use the meter as a rough guide. I adjust according to my eyes, not what the dumb camera thinks is right.

I personally only shoot manual.  I like to have control over all the settings.  

Stealthy Ninja wrote:

Scotty wrote:

Joves wrote:

garyrhook wrote:

Scotty wrote: ...and have a healthy discussion.

I think that horse left the dock.

Well even though I posted in the other thread. I will preface this post with if you feel any of the Auto Modes work for you then use them, and good for you.     
AS for me, and the response to that I was not giving a technical reason for using it, that is false. My technical reason was that Nikons at least I tend to find that they Over Expose in P,S, and A Modes. So for me I will never use them, and have not for a few years. Just stating that you can compensate that with the EC function is just another unnecessary step to me. How that can be considered better is beyond me, well as far as my shooting style goes. I can adjust my shutter speed, and aperture with the flick of a finger, and thumb at the same time to get what I want, and not have to go to a function button to reset if the lighting changes. In MM I just change either bot, or one setting with the wheels near the focus, and shutter release. Also all of you Modes as said are indeed decided by the meter, which I find over exposes most of the time, so your modes will over expose, or not expose correctly. This is why they left manual in.
And before I hear I do not know how to use EC then, or those Modes correctly. I do know how to use them, but do not care for them. Also I know what every function of my Picture Controls do as well, but am not arrogant enough to think that I can shoot solely in Jpeg. The first thing I have done with my cameras when I bought them was comparative shooting playing with the settings, and exposures. On the subject I think MM is far superior to Aperture Priority, or the other Modes. As far as having to watch, or forgetting to look at my meter when I am shooting, I do not even have to think about it, because it is second nature for me to see the settings.
So as I said if the Modes float your boat good for you, but don't try to make me sound like a luddite for thinking they are junk to me. Lets keep this civil.

Manual mode and aperture priority with the same settings, the needle in the middle will expose the exact same.

This is true. If AP by some chance gives you the exact same settings as M, then it will be exactly the same... The point is, will AP give you the correct settings or will something in the scene confuse it?

As I said in the old thread (or something similar at least):
If your using EC, why not just go all the way and get full control with MM?

EC can change when light changes, therefore your settings get messed up (say you know that faces in the audience need X settings, then some strong back light comes behind them, maybe from the stage, using EC would make your setting way too dark for your subject (stupid camera).

EC might work for one shot, but don't expect it to be constant. If you want to have your settings to be constant, then manual is the only way to go.

Not saying auto modes and EC can't work, but they don't know light so well. Also, I only use the meter as a rough guide. I adjust according to my eyes, not what the dumb camera thinks is right.

It's the same metering. If the scene messes up the meter in AP, it'll do the same in manual. That's why I depend on histogram and I don't think you'll disagree with me there.

My lighting situations change too quickly for me to not to shoot MM.
I will forget to change my over/under settings.
I do not look at my shots after every frame taken, so I might end up with flops.
Today I had to snap a lot of interiors. (Snap = point and shoot.)
Pointing the camera towards windows will underexpose the interior with 1-2 stops.
So MM makes sense to me.
Our topics differ. Whatever works for the individual.

Scotty wrote:

Stealthy Ninja wrote: Manual mode and aperture priority with the same settings, the needle in the middle will expose the exact same.

This is true. If AP by some chance gives you the exact same settings as M, then it will be exactly the same... The point is, will AP give you the correct settings or will something in the scene confuse it?

As I said in the old thread (or something similar at least):
If your using EC, why not just go all the way and get full control with MM?

EC can change when light changes, therefore your settings get messed up (say you know that faces in the audience need X settings, then some strong back light comes behind them, maybe from the stage, using EC would make your setting way too dark for your subject (stupid camera).

EC might work for one shot, but don't expect it to be constant. If you want to have your settings to be constant, then manual is the only way to go.

Not saying auto modes and EC can't work, but they don't know light so well. Also, I only use the meter as a rough guide. I adjust according to my eyes, not what the dumb camera thinks is right.

It's the same metering. If the scene messes up the meter in AP, it'll do the same in manual. That's why I depend on histogram and I don't think you'll disagree with me there.[/quote]

Why Yes Adrian you are correct. If you keep the metering centered then they will be the same settings. But since I know my D300 will blow highlights with the suggested exposure value, it is never centered. And the amount of under exposure I put in is determined by what light I am working with. Something that is more of a PITA in Aperture Mode to work out.

I do not even use my histogram, never have. Once I learn how a camera exposes there is no need for it. The one thing I love about digitals is that they are consistent, as where in the film days every film had its own little way of being different. That is why there is no love lost with film being gone.