Limited Shutter Speed

I took my GH2 to the school field to take pics of my kid in the setting sun. I brought my Yongnou flash and hoped to use the sun as a backlight and my flash as a key.

The problem I ran into was that with the flash, the shutter speed was limited to about 250 (if I remember right). That would not allow me to keep my aperature wide open. My ISO was 160 so I had no real choices.

Is it normal for a camera to limit the shutter speed when a flash is installed?

Yes. See this..........
mr-chompers.blogspot.com/2008/06/sync-speed-explained.html

So, in that situation, what would the answer be? Would a filter be the solution or do i have to give up on a wide open filter (1.4)? I see tuts with people shooting with flash out doors. Just trying to get going.

In full sun normal exposure is approximately f/11 @ 1/200 @ ISO 100, so it's a problem for a lot of cameras.

Some flash systems offer high speed sync, which allow faster shutter speeds that normal sync speed.

A neutral density or polarizing filter can be used to block exposure. It also effects flash exposure.

I try to find some shade and use a circ pol which usually adds up to 3+ stops (f/4 @ 1/200 @ ISO 100)

I usually use manual cameras, and with the sun setting and losing light, I'd probably go with a slower shutter speed like 1/125 or 1/160 which would be about as slow as I could manage hand-held. And shooting film I'd have at least 400 ISO if not 800 and would want to open up the aperture.

Using a flash, as Effron mentioned you'd need to know the sync speed for your camera; could the flash settings be what's limiting your camera/shutter settings? I don't know in that situation if I'd use a flash if I wanted to control the ISO, shutter speed, and aperture.

You mentioned the school field, but I wasn't sure if you were shooting him playing sports or if you were using that as background for a portrait. So I'm not sure if the flash would be helping anyway depending on your distance from your subject. If you set the ISO higher maybe that would give you better options for shutter speed and aperture.

Thanks all. I think I see that my expectations were off. I can't expect to shoot with lots of sun and a wide open aperture. I will have to choke it down, pop a filter on or wait until it goes down a bit more.

Thanks for sharing your experience. Big help!
Rob

If you changed the F stop that would work, a 1.4 f stop would give a fairly shallow DOF, if you went to 5.6 you would cut down a lot of light and still have the back ground blurry

Okie doke. Thanks. I will have to out without the kids and play around.

Oh, in reply to Icepics, it was background, not sports.

I may have misread your post, I thought you were shooting in lower light but you seem to be starting while it's still brighter out. WIth changing light as the sun sets you'll probably need to change settings as you go, maybe starting with a smaller aperture and opening up the lens more as you lose light (depending on the timing).

Yes that's right. I was scared I would lose my shallow DOF and therefor didn't want to adjust aperture. But the encouragement here is a big help. I will give it a go.

Go for it! That can be part of learning, trying different settings as you learn what works in varous situations.

If you want to have a larger aperture while it's still fairly bright, then you might try a faster shutter speed; then as you lose light as the sun sets you may need to adjust to a slower shutter speed. I shoot film mostly so am not used to a changing ISO so others can help you more with that.

I tend to use lower late-day light more often behind me so it lights the scene in front of me (til the light gets too low for that to be much of an option). .

There are other ways to reduce DOF than just aperture: increase focal length, and or decrease focusing distance.

Shooting raw it is often possible to over-expose a bit, and still recover highlight details. Especially with low ISOs.

So, I had a Canon FD50mm f1.4 on the camera. You are saying I might have done better popping my 14-140 on, zooming in and backing up?

Heartfelt wrote: So, I had a Canon FD50mm f1.4 on the camera. You are saying I might have done better popping my 14-140 on, zooming in and backing up?

That's tough to say, but probably not. Your zoom lens racked out to 140 is probably a lot slower than 1.4. Also, you will need to be farther away from your subject. Both of these will increase the DOF compared to the 50. For example, if your subject is 10 feet away, your DOF with a 50mm at 1.4 (on a 4/3 sensor camera) is about 6 inches. With your zoom lens at 140, f/5.6, your DOF at 10 feet is about 3 inches. However, if you have to back up from the subject to 30 feet to get the same framing, then the DOF increases to 27 inches.

Here is a DOF calculator: www.dofmaster.com/dofjs.html


I am a little confused about why you are so concerned with minimizing your depth of field. Is the scenario that you have a very bright, very ugly background? Usually when shooting with flash, your aperture is more determined by the power and distance of the flash than it is by DOF considerations. In order to get a good flash exposure with aperture 1.4, your flash has to be either pretty weak or pretty far away (mostly the same thing, but the light will be more broad if it is farther away.)

Usually when I take flash pictures into a bright background it is because the background is interesting. A portrait in front of a sunset is a great example. In that case, I want the DOF to be as wide as possible because I want both the subject and the background in focus. But the power and distance of my flash will determine my aperture.

Unless you are in the studio, the conditions are going to greatly determine your camera settings. In the studio, you can control conditions so that creative considerations are primary. But in the field, you need to play the hand you are dealt.

The great thing about digital cameras is you can tell right away whether it is working or not.

I was hoping to grab some sun based haloing effects with a hazy/smeared green background. So I was hoping to catch shots with the sun towards the background or off to the side. To do this, flashing the face seemed to be the way to go.

But, that DOF calculator was eye opening. I realized I can choke up quite a bit and still have a narrow range of DOF (more than adequate) and that would have changed everything.

I just to get back out there and snap away for some further learning.