How to decide on rates/prices?

I am always asked what I "charge" to do a shoot or for individual photos (which have been taken at a public event or venue), and never have a clue what to say... I always have a lot of trouble putting a value on something that is so subjective (I have had the same problem with my other artwork, but had a great group of local artists who would help price things). I usually end up sort of haggling with people, depending on how many shots they wanted to buy and what they want to use them for... and that has worked alright for selling photos I already have, but now I am being asked how much I charge to actually book a shoot - I'm am immensely flattered that people WANT me to take photos for them, but beyond that am at a total loss for how to answer.

I have a rough idea, through talking with other local photographers of what they seem to average out at, my real dilemma is that many of them have been doing "business" for a number of years, but I am really just starting out. On the one hand, it seems a little unreasonable to ask (or expect) what some of the others charge, on the other - I am the one being approached (Usually based on shots I have taken for practice or just hanging out with friends who happen to have adorable kids) so obviously there is interest in my work.

How do most photographers decide what is "fair" for their work... is there some sort of method to the madness?

"fair" is really just what other people are willing to pay for your work.

if 20/100 people are willing to pay 200$ for a photoshoot, but 80/100 are willing to pay 100$ - it makes far more sense to charge 100$ - that said... dont undercut yourself. figure out how much you need to support yourself and business and start from there.

But mostly... i think its fairly arbitrary decision making based on a perceived self-value of the photographer... lol

There are professional photographers organizations that have information on pricing and other business aspects of photography, such as ASMP or PPA. At some point you'd be dealing with taxes, how to process payments, etc. so you probably have a lot of 'homework' ahead of you.

icepics - Thanks, I understand that, I have already discussed with my accountant about the taxes, records etc... I didn't want to be caught off guard by the government, so I have that side of things clear for my area, and have run other businesses so most of those skills are solid enough too...

I have found most pricing suggestions are pretty vague... so I was wondering if more "personal" feedback might help me with this.

Right now I don't charge for the shoot (which I have been told I should do because my time is worth something... but... as some other photographers are quick to point out (not to me specifically, but to what I would consider other photographers in my position) - I'm not "pro" yet... it seems kind of vague just what a "real pro" is... a few in my area are, not bad, but not amazing - and charge a lot of money (or at least what I would consider a lot for the end product)... my conscience has a bit of a problem doing that). I tend to treat the shoots like little lessons, a chance to practice skills I am still mastering - but I don't feel that I should be giving the images away for nothing if someone wants them... especially when it is other professionals (like riding coaches, horse trainers etc.) wanting them for their own promotional use. Maybe that's my artist vanity hanging out... but I have been "trained" that the end product is worth "something" (it's just that something often eludes me).

Good that you already looked into some of the business aspects of it. If you're considering doing photos for promotions that are for business purposes it seems appropriate to expect some compensation or payment.

I think ASMP has something on their site that gives a formula or plan for how to determine your costs and time and how much to charge, but I forget offhand under what section it's listed. Your situation is more specific but maybe someone on here has done that type of photography.

If you know or can find out what the typical payment is, there might be a range of prices where you'd want to be reasonably competitve, not underpricing yourself, but starting out maybe at a more entry level. I suppose it would need to be at whatever is comfortable and workable for you.

Thanks... I am far less concerned about being paid for the shoots, at the moment, but I figure if my work is being seen and wanted for framing, it shouldn't be free. I have sold some images which were taken at a horse event this spring - I was there for the organization running it, but approached by a couple of the clinicians for promotional shots. I asked them what they have paid in the past at the same event (and knowing the photographer, I knew taking a little less than him was fair)... but it's not really professional (at all) to be asking your client "what do you want to pay?" (at least it isn't in any other business... ). I am assuming they were happy with what they got, I didn't get any negative feedback (I know they got more shots than they thought they were getting, both said that much)

I'll see if I can find that article/calculator on ASMP... I am in Canada, but I would assume the only "really big" difference will be copyrights and other legal aspects between here and the USA. How to decide on prices is probably fairly universal, yes?

The only thing I know about Canada is hockey! And while I was shooting that locally, I had opportunities to talk to team photographers etc. and pick their brains, so I was thinking more along those lines (no I don't think I'd ask a prospective client what they'd want to pay). I found that as I made connections I had opportunities to find out how things worked, so I learned over time what the media procedures are in minor league/local sports. Unless they put horses on ice skates I wouldn't know about equine events!

There could be differences regionally in costs and payments, there are differences certainly in doing local sports compared to major publications. What you're doing seems more specialized so I'm not sure what else might be a good resource. Starting out you could consider it to be a learning experience, and if they liked your photos you might get more opportunities based on word of mouth. Not sure where else you could get an idea what the going rate is for providing promotional photos.

I was thinking more along the lines of the "formula" to decide on price would be about the same anywhere - the same considerations are present, the regional differences in price are a separate issue, and for that I may just have to try and find a price that works for my peace of mind but isn't so low as to have people wondering "why". Some of the prices seem really low, others seem really high.

Most people interested in buying have wanted the candid shots I have done of their kids (I tend to "borrow" kids to practice on (with parent's permission)) or pets. Especially when I find a willing or great subject.

The horse stuff I would love to get into more, but it could be slow going. At least locally, some events/facilities seem to have a hired pro for the event, and they have "exclusive commercial rights", to be recognized enough for a facility to hire for one of these events a certain amount of a name needs to be built first... but they are the only ones who can SELL what they take at such events (I guess in these cases the event is deemed "private" in order for this to be enforceable). I can still go and shoot, practice and add to my portfolio though (which is great for me and others starting out!).

Other events are "open" and several photographers will be there (some may have been hired by a specific rider(s)/barn, others just come in hopes of finding someone who will buy). I have chatted up photographers from both and found the pricing still eludes me.

One event the photographer had technically beautiful shots, but, he missed his timing - which is critical for some horse sports where precision and timing is important to their discipline. He was upset that in spite of his name (he is well known for other work) nobody was buying (his prices were on the high side). On the other hand, another girl at the same event, similar to me - likes to take photos, won't give away the keepers - was selling like mad for slightly lower prices. Her timing was great, but the photos were not quite as technically correct.

I have also found, a lot of photographers in my area don't LIKE to talk money. They seem to try hard to avoid talking about money. It's sort of frustrating, because it really seems to leave it down to ego.

If you are wanting to become a full time pro photographer then you need to work out what it is that you need to earn to cover all your costs and have a reasonable profit at the end, its a simple costing excersise, equate all your expenses for the shoot, work out what you think you are worth or want per hour or per session and you should end up with a fair price, forget what others are charging, you decide your worth based on your talents and that has nothing to do with being pro or amatuer, its wether you produce exactly what your clients want and they are happy at the end of the job, simply put stand by your talent and go for it.
No one can tell you what to charge and asking the client is far from professional, I have seen average photographers charging exorbitant prices and great photographers giving their talents away, its a question of what do you want.

Thanks, I have been toying with being full time, but hesitant to really put myself out there just yet. I have a more learning to do before I'm totally comfortable calling myself a full time professional. Building a stronger portfolio is really what my focus is on right now, along with getting my shots viewed by people.

You are right, it shouldn't matter what someone next to me is charging, but I think it does, a little. To a client, often price is a make it or break it part of the transaction. It can be hard for the client to understand how it's not really just my time and skill, but also any equipment I bring and expenses to get to and from the shoot. I know that at the end of the day, it's really about happy clients, but it seems to be a thin line to making that happen sometimes.