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Been asked to be second shooter, but no rights?


12 years 6 months ago #159839 by The Original Daisy
I got asked today to be a second shooter at a wedding. Sounded good to me till I was told from the main photographer that if any my shoots are keepers, I have no rights to display them. Is that normal? I would like to pick up the extra cash, but would also like the idea of of being able to show off any good shots.

Would you shoot this if you could not use the photos?
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12 years 6 months ago #159848 by Maria21
I had someone be a second shooter for me with the understanding that she not use any images until the bride gave us a list of images allowed to be used. She wants to use whatever photos she took & is now upset with me. I tried to explain that we did not have the right to do so without the brides consent. Legally we do not have permission to use photos of anyone unless they sign a consent to use statement. My bride did not sign a consent to use statement.

In my case the bride was adopted & did not want her biological family to see the images & know where she was or how to find her. She also did not want photos of her children to be used in advertising.

You need to decide if you want the experience & the money or not. If you have sots worth showing off, you could ask the main shooter to ask the bride for permission to use the images.
Zerfing's Photographic Imaging
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12 years 6 months ago #159879 by geoffellis
i suppose it would fall under the same restrictions that require you have a model release. if she hasnt signed one, you cant publicly use the photos. I would ask for a restricted model release or consent to use. perhaps you cant use it for advertising, but she might grant it for offline portfolio use if privacy is the issue.
www.geoffellis.ca
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12 years 6 months ago #159904 by photobod
The experience will certainly be a valueable one so I say go for it, then afterwards have a talk with the main photographer and ask him to have a word with the couple to see if they would be happy for you to use some photos for display, if he is reasonable he will do it, if he isnt then just enjoy what you have learned and find someone else to work with.
www.dcimages.org.uk
"A good photograph is one that communicate a fact, touches the heart, leaves the viewer a changed person for having seen it. It is, in a word, effective." - Irving Penn
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12 years 6 months ago #159925 by Henry Peach

The Original Daisy wrote: Is that normal?


There are many ways of doing business. I wouldn't call it normal, but it's not uncommon. If you don't like the terms of employment don't take the job. If you do take the job make sure everything is clearly stated ahead of time in writing.
mattneedham.zenfolio.com
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12 years 6 months ago #159973 by BOLT
If this was my first wedding, I would be completely fine with it. As of right now, I am after the experience. Yea it helps to have pictures to show that skill, but I am sure you can use the bride as a reference.
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12 years 6 months ago #159980 by RogerS
The main tog is hiring you to take the pictures for him. Under copyright laws, that means that the employer owns the rights to the images you produce. After the bride has chosen her photos, ask the tog if you can have limited rights for a few images to put in your portfolio.
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12 years 6 months ago - 12 years 6 months ago #159996 by Henry Peach

RogerS wrote: The main tog is hiring you to take the pictures for him. Under copyright laws, that means that the employer owns the rights to the images you produce.


As far as I understand the law that's only automatic when you are employed by the US government, and in that case the photo becomes public domain. Otherwise there are many ways one photographer can employ another, and who owns and controls copyright needs to be spelled out. The assistant could be an employee or an independent contractor. In either case I think the law says the photographer who took the photo automatically gets copyright unless they make or have made agreements to share or give it up.

EDIT: Here's a link to a copyright FAQ. Roger S is right if you are hired as an employee who's normal work duties would be taking photographs. I think most folks getting hired for a single or a few jobs would be hired as independent contractors though. Are they paying your payroll taxes? If not you aren't their employee.


Businesses of all types are going to be concerned about how their product and brand are used and portrayed. When you use the photos to promote yourself do you mention the main photographer's business? Is the main photographer using your photos in promoting their business? Can you both use those photos for promotion? What if the main photographer doesn't like some of the photos, and doesn't want to be associated with them? What about deals they've made with the client as to how the photos can and will be used? There are a lot of different angles and reasons a business owner might want to have control over the photos created under their brand name.
mattneedham.zenfolio.com
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12 years 6 months ago #159999 by Strelle685

RogerS wrote: The main tog is hiring you to take the pictures for him. Under copyright laws, that means that the employer owns the rights to the images you produce. After the bride has chosen her photos, ask the tog if you can have limited rights for a few images to put in your portfolio.


That is my understanding also. When someone is hired through a retail portrait studio, they do not own those photographs and can not use those photos in their portfolio.

Not sure if it's the same way when working with another photographer.
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12 years 6 months ago #160331 by No Show

Henry Peach wrote:

The Original Daisy wrote: Is that normal?


There are many ways of doing business. I wouldn't call it normal, but it's not uncommon. If you don't like the terms of employment don't take the job. If you do take the job make sure everything is clearly stated ahead of time in writing.



:agree: that's how it is. Take it or leave it. Some day you'll be in the position to call the shots.

Personally I would do it just for the experience. Hopefully the Pro photographer will give some pointers to you.
D300| Nikkor 24-70mm 2.8 | Nikkor 70-200mm VR 2.8 | Nikkor 50mm 1.8 | Nikon 2x Teleconverter | Sigma 105mm 2.8 | Tokina 12-24
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12 years 6 months ago #160348 by Mugsy
I wouldn't be too upset. If the photographer told you, you have to wait for permission from the bride, then so does he. So in the meantime, neither you or him will have permissions to use those photos...until the bride says so.
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12 years 6 months ago #160354 by butterflygirl921
:agree: Don't be to upset. Just do the shoot and wait for permission from the bride. It's really no big deal. Just keep in mind he can't use the photos either. Anyway just for the experience alone I would do it. You can't get everything.
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12 years 6 months ago #160390 by geoffellis
you also have to understand that you are being paid to provide a service, as is the main photographer. Consider personal/business use permitted by the person paying you a bonus/privelage... not a right.
www.geoffellis.ca
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