Honest critique

TheNissanMan wrote: Exactly my point, if a photo is posted and is a crap shot would it not be better to say why rather than rub someones ego and pretend it's the best thing since sliced bread

Although I have found, some people can only handle "rub my ego". They can not handle the truth. The negatives about the photo. And not willing to learn how to make it better. They think, nothing is wrong with their photo. These people, I believe need the critique more then anyone else.

MLKstudios wrote: But, I would never give a tough critique to someone I don't know in an open forum.

You simply don't know them well enough to cut to the bone. A good example is a mother who took a photo of their "adorable" baby. What if the image literally sucks. Are YOU going to tell her that? I wouldn't.

My 2¢

I would.
If the mother asked for a honest critque, of a photo she took of her baby. Yes I will flat out give her my honest critque. If not, I'm just being like everyone else (you included, from the sounds of it) that simply says "nice pic".
Now if this mother, posted the photo of her baby, just to display not for critique....then and only then I will not critique it. Because she did not ask it.
IMO, it's not about the subject of the photo, it's not about the photographer...it's about how to help one become better (if that is what the photographer wants). Some people simply want to have fun shooting and in no hurry to learn how to shoot better.

mj~shutterbugg wrote: I also posted a portrait of my niece and did get some advice that will be useable for next time. That's my goal, education, growth, improvement.

I guess when I am asking for a crit I am used to Crystal's style and want it clear and concise. I put on my big girl panties for a crit post. I try to also post my critique requests in the crit forums as I thought that is where everyone went to get advice. I can post them under general photo as well. I guess this is me saying feel free to honestly, constructively crit any of my works I post for critique

Thank you. IMO, I think you should stick with placing the photos in the critique section. Alex made that section for a reason. I don't see harm in posting photos all over the forum...as it is a photography forum.

BTW, I would be more then happy to crtique your work, I just been busy with life lately, haven't made it to the critque section in awhile.

In terms of cutting to the bone, if the post states why you do not like an image then it shouldn't really cut that deep, it's not as if your posting a simple thats crap....

Photogrpahy as with any form of art is personal, I may look at an image and go wow, someone else may hate it, as long as both parties say why then if your not man (or woman) enough to take it personally don't think you should be posting on a tog forum to learn.

Not all art is personal, but it is our creation -- our child. Some may be very connected to a landscape they took. They put a lot of themselves into it, including suffering hardships along the way. But, if it fails, and your reply "sounds" flippant in any way, then you can hurt their feelings.

And you don't know, in advance, how they feel about their work, or enough about their character to be critical. Even if your critique is valid, it could destroy them.

2¢

MLKstudios wrote: Not all art is personal, but it is our creation -- our child. Some may be very connected to a landscape they took. They put a lot of themselves into it, including suffering hardships along the way. But, if it fails, and your reply "sounds" flippant in any way, then you can hurt their feelings.

And you don't know, in advance, how they feel about their work, or enough about their character to be critical. Even if your critique is valid, it could destroy them.

2¢

If the photo is posted in the critique section which looking at this forum setup all the subject headings are under then epexct critique on a photo...

If you were teaching a mild mannered person you couldn't pussy foot around someone forever saying well it's an improvement all day long.

Each person is different, and needs to be taught differently. For some of my students I do walk softly. Others I know can take a punch. We can't project our own character traits on others -- i.e. "They can take it with a grain of salt". Maybe they can, and maybe not.

Among us are people who think their work is really good when it simply isn't. When hit by that reality, it can cause mental shock. Their vision of themselves gets shaken.

I know -- it's "just a picture". But, like I said above, it can mean a lot to the person who took it. And again, any GOOD work, should have a piece of YOU in it.

4¢ this time.

For me if you put your photos up there then you have to be prepared for some flack, however there is good criticism and bad criticism, simply saying thats crap or thats rubbish, is unhelpful and rude,
simply saying thats good or thats nice likewise isnt helpful, unless of course you are there only to look and admire as on occasions I do.
Its constructive criticism that people want, where did I go wrong or right, how do I move on, what can I do to improve.
If you want a perfect example of what I mean just see what Crystal does, she is honest, forthright, truthful, straight forward but helpful, she tells you how to improve, I have had Crystal critique my photos and I have gone on to improve, thats what critiques are about.

Sometimes the truth hurts, sometimes not. If I turn out a so so piece of work that needs improvement I expect honest criticism and not namby pamby critique. As always I provide an example to illustrate my point when someone asks a general question needing clarification, I feel this is only a learning tool that helps the OP. BTW what do Y'all think of this pic from my album that I took in Alaska ?

That's good.

The problem exists with almost all forums.The thing mainly is you pat my back and I will pat yours. good for the ego but as a photographer no gain at all.

A special thread perhaps where you post your images and you get the honest opinion, good or bad.One can also hold polls of of the images submitted.

At least in my case I can say I improved because one of my close contacts had the guts to tell me certain drawbacks of an image of mine.(On flickr) I never again uploaded an image without considering it many times........

One solution another forum has come up with is to have a drop down option when posting the photo sections that stipulates that someone wants crit, would imagine with most forum packages that would be something easy to incorporate.

I first heard of PhotographyTalk elsewhere on the net a couple of months ago, where it was put forward as an excellent forum to learn about photography. My initial explorations did not support that view since I looked mostly at the photo critiques and decided that they weren't generally very helpful, for all the reasons given in previous posts. I've since learned that there is a lot more than that on this forum, have joined in, and I think PhotographyTalk really is excellent. I've been able to offer my 2 cents worth on some topics and have learned a lot from reading others' wisdom. I do still think though, that photo critiquing is a weak point.

I also participate in the Nature Photographers Network , where photo critiques have also been discussed in depth. This article and this discussion have some valuable things to say about the nature of good critique and can add to the mix here.

Regards,
Chris