MLK Studios vs NYIP??

NYIP wrote: To be completely honest, we're not on this forum to defend our name or sell to you guys. We're here to participate in conversations and to answer questions. Having never heard of MLK Studios personally, I can't comment on the merits of the program.

What I can say is that it seems like more of a personal preference than anything else. NYIP is 101 years old this year. We've made it this long because we know what we're doing, we do it at a good price, and we have satisfied students. If those things were not true, we would have gone out of business a long time ago.

Our programs are a little more expensive it seems than MLK, but we also provide a whole lot of materials to each and every student. That's not to say the quality is better, but we spend a whole lot of time continuously updating our courses and the materials, and we're proud of the quality of training we offer.

And no, Country gal is not a paid spokeswoman. But we do appreciate the support, and we see that kind of support from most of our students and graduates. So thank you!

Well said NYIP, I havent seen you in the threads much but then I dont go in every thread, but I do like the supporting Vendors that are active within the forum, your expertise is most welcome.
The Country Gal thing is nothing for anybody to worry about, I feel that maybe she has done your course and felt the need to support you, she just didnt do it the friendliest of ways.

crystal wrote:

Baydream wrote: I'm certainly glad that NYIP chimed in on the discussion. It will take some time to sort thought the options and techniques used to determine the better option for many people.

In a way, I don't think Country Girl's comments were meant to be offensive but more a reaction to the Hollywood "slickness" of some of Matthew's comments. That does put some people off.
I attended a one-day workshop with Bill and Lind Lane about a year ago. Their "mantra" was only shoot in manual and only with a tripod. I found that their opinions were so self-centric that it really discouraged me from attending their week-log workshops,

Matthew, I appreciate many of your comments but at times feel a little put off at your self promotion and seemingly rigid opinions. When someone tells me I have to have this lens or that, or I must buy this tripod or that, I get the feeling that that person is a bit too biased to be truly instructive. Just a personal view based on years of observing people.

My decision at this point is, neither. Both seem to have their merits but each has it's drawbacks.

completely.

Thanks, Crystal. I was hoping not to come of as being overly critical but simply looking for a balanced discussion. As I mentioned in another thread, I am looking to improve/learn specific areas of photography and am not looking for a soup-to-nuts program.

Baydream,

What area (or areas) are you interested in?

Matthew

MLKstudios wrote: Baydream,

What area (or areas) are you interested in?

Matthew

I am working on macro right now, then MAYBE studio lighting (that would not be until fall).

Baydream wrote:

MLKstudios wrote: Baydream,

What area (or areas) are you interested in?

Matthew

I am working on macro right now, then MAYBE studio lighting (that would not be until fall).

Macro is a subject that I would like to get into more and Studio lighting I am fortunate to have developed that skill for a few years now.

Baydream wrote:

MLKstudios wrote: Baydream,

What area (or areas) are you interested in?

Matthew

I am working on macro right now, then MAYBE studio lighting (that would not be until fall).

IMO, with macro, I don't think it could so much be taught as to like umm I guess studio portrait for instance. With macro photography, after you learn photography itself...ISO, DOF, shutter etc... and know that with macro you need either a macro lens, screw on lens or reverse a lens, it's then all up to the photographer if they can create a macro shot.

Anything can be photograph as a macro photo, because even if it's not an interesting subject like a bug or a flower, if one gets close enough, it could become an interesting abstract art.

One thing I do have to say for those who want to get into macro, but not sure what to shoot. Look at images of other macro photography (it will inspire you). Also take the lens and just go out and get really close to whatever you see. Even if you think the subject from far away is boring.....you just never know close up.

Baydream wrote:

crystal wrote:

Baydream wrote: I'm certainly glad that NYIP chimed in on the discussion. It will take some time to sort thought the options and techniques used to determine the better option for many people.

In a way, I don't think Country Girl's comments were meant to be offensive but more a reaction to the Hollywood "slickness" of some of Matthew's comments. That does put some people off.
I attended a one-day workshop with Bill and Lind Lane about a year ago. Their "mantra" was only shoot in manual and only with a tripod. I found that their opinions were so self-centric that it really discouraged me from attending their week-log workshops,

Matthew, I appreciate many of your comments but at times feel a little put off at your self promotion and seemingly rigid opinions. When someone tells me I have to have this lens or that, or I must buy this tripod or that, I get the feeling that that person is a bit too biased to be truly instructive. Just a personal view based on years of observing people.

My decision at this point is, neither. Both seem to have their merits but each has it's drawbacks.

completely.

Thanks, Crystal. I was hoping not to come of as being overly critical but simply looking for a balanced discussion. As I mentioned in another thread, I am looking to improve/learn specific areas of photography and am not looking for a soup-to-nuts program.

You are welcome. I decided to keep my mouth shut yesterday, as I didn't want to come off rude, but you pretty much said exactly what I was thinking and reply in a nicer way, then I could have.

crystal wrote:

Baydream wrote:

MLKstudios wrote: Baydream,

What area (or areas) are you interested in?

Matthew

I am working on macro right now, then MAYBE studio lighting (that would not be until fall).

IMO, with macro, I don't think it could so much be taught as to like umm I guess studio portrait for instance. With macro photography, after you learn photography itself...ISO, DOF, shutter etc... and know that with macro you need either a macro lens, screw on lens or reverse a lens, it's then all up to the photographer if they can create a macro shot.

Anything can be photograph as a macro photo, because even if it's not an interesting subject like a bug or a flower, if one gets close enough, it could become an interesting abstract art.

One thing I do have to say for those who want to get into macro, but not sure what to shoot. Look at images of other macro photography (it will inspire you). Also take the lens and just go out and get really close to whatever you see. Even if you think the subject from far away is boring.....you just never know close up.

Crystal - Thanks for the input on macro. I think your advice and some online research will get me where I need to go. Our club will be on a shoot Saturday with three stops at flora locations plus an historic site so I should get some practice, especially being with some experienced macro folks.

I'm a macro fan too, with many years of shooting both (macro and studio lighting).

I would like to add, that I don't force my own style on anyone. I've had teachers like that and find it the wrong way to teach. In fact, I don't have pics on my site to copy. Just assignments where you make your own. Of course there is some guidance behind them, but I never tell you WHAT to shoot.

I started photography in High School, and have had some really good and some really bad teachers along the way. My "Zen-like" method is about getting past the camera -- i.e. the camera settings, etc. So only YOUR vision is the goal. The best teachers I've had taught me that way. Once you know how to operate a camera, what do you want to do with that knowledge?

FYI my own education cost over $100K and many, many years (way before the internet). The reason I charge so little, is because the economy is bad right now, and I know what it is like to be JSO (Just Starting Out). You typically don't have a lot of money to spend, and I'd rather teach many than just a wealthy few. Plus, I think what I teach (and how) is important. It makes people realize there is a lot more to being called a pro than what many people think, and helps makes our trade more respectable. Not a "fake it till you make it" attitude, I've seen others profess.

I don't spend nearly as much as NYIP does on advertising, so I don't have to charge their high prices. Most all of my students come from referrals of past students. And I have many.

The only two pieces of equipment I recommend are the 50mm ('cause it is a cheap prime to start with) and later an "on-camera" flash. It's a tool we use to control contrast. Digital is similar to slide (or chrome) films and has a narrow contrast range (or Dynamic Range in digital-speak). Only a few DSLRs come close to film in latitude, and those are the more expensive ones. Not something a typical beginner has at hand.

Also, I give you 6 months to finish an 8-week course. Some take longer than that as it includes a lot of information. I had to add a "renewal" fee due to past students asking to be re-enrolled 5 or more years after starting. I wasn't so sure it was for them or someone else. It's not a high priced renewal.

And there is more than myself behind MLK Studios. I have a biz manager, a web admin, and other "helpers". The good thing is that I'm the one giving my students their critiques. Not some lackey. And I've been doing this a very long time (over 20 years). It is a very personal student/teacher relationship you get from me. I can help you go in ANY direction you choose.

Matthew

Something HP said I think needs repeating, is what makes a photograph stand out from others are the design elements common to all forms of art. These can be applied to ALL styles of photography, including macro. As Dewitt says, from a good frame to a great frame!

Matthew

BTW Sorry if I come across as a "know it all". That's not my intent. I was too humble before, and maybe overcompensating a bit. I'll try to find a nice balance.

Just a "heads up" for everyone. My $199.99 Super Sale is going to end in a week. I probably won't take it back to $495 (the economy is still in stress) but it won't be under $200 again for a long, long time (if ever).

If you do the assignments, I can guarantee you WILL know what a professional photographer knows, and it will help you with your career (in any direction). I am always available to my students for questions and they get answered quickly.

To become a pro doesn't take fancy equipment. It does take approaching your work professionally.

Knowledge is key.

Matthew

PS I offer a full refund for any reason in the first 10 days, so there is no risk. If my teaching style doesn't work for, you can apply that to NYIP (or Betterphoto.com).

MLKstudios wrote: Just a "heads up" for everyone. My $199.99 Super Sale is going to end in a week. I probably won't take it back to $495 (the economy is still in stress) but it won't be under $200 again for a long, long time (if ever).

If you do the assignments, I can guarantee you WILL know what a professional photographer knows, and it will help you with your career (in any direction). I am always available to my students for questions and they get answered quickly.

To become a pro doesn't take fancy equipment. It does take approaching your work professionally.

Knowledge is key.

Matthew

PS I offer a full refund for any reason in the first 10 days, so there is no risk. If my teaching style doesn't work for, you can apply that to NYIP (or Betterphoto.com).

Seeing the drama this thread had started, why did you reply to this thread to announce your sale??? Just to start more shit?
If you must announce your suppose discounts, start a new thread.
I just love this... "it won't be under $200 again for a long, long time (if ever)." Such a way to get more students. Almost like a threat. People see oh my, it's really cheap right now and probably will never be that cheap again, I should run as fast as I can and sign up.


"If you do the assignments, I can guarantee you WILL know what a professional photographer knows"....students will know what you know. That's as far as that goes.

BTW, You must not be that good of a teacher, because you are busy on this forum instead of having students to teach.

Oh I just love how you add other schools (NYIP, Betterphoto) if students do not like your way of teaching.

I pay to be a "vendor" here. That gives me the right to announce my classes. Nothing more, nothing less. If you don't want to take the course, that's fine by me.

Thanks for being supportive.

The fun of the internet forum, especially with two compete products/sponsors/ideas, isn't a heated discussion fun?

Being new to the forum can I ask what qualifications you actually get from either party and how widely recognised they are?

I see mentions of diploma's are these internationally recognised or are they local things?

I admit to not knowing prices from accross the pond but $200 for a diploma that is worth anything seems excessively cheap no matter how bad the economy is or am I missing the point here somewhere.

My school is not accredited and can only offer a "certificate". But, no one will hire you based on a certificate or a diploma. It's your portfolio of work that matters.

Matthew

PS I've looked into becoming accredited, and would have to charge a lot more for the same training. Again, I believe what I teach is important and try to make it accesible to everyone. It's sharing the knowledge that counts most, to me.

I only charge because the world demands I make money. If someone else paid for my rent, food & etc. I'd do it for free.